Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Canberra » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:43 pm

Scott,

The standard fork caps need have a thin soft washer which seals off the nut. Not sure about the progressive springs but I purchased them from Ikon here in Oz. They were off the shelf item and they normally sell overseas. The springs are same part number as triumph as used on 1979 models (97-4011), so look for a progressive spring for them. I suspect that all triumph fork springs in the 70s are the same. The dampers were different.

John

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:44 pm

The frame and cycle parts are back from powder coat. I am waiting for a warm day to rinse the frame out with gasoline. I'm going to fill it up half way - shake it around - drain it and repeat until the gas that comes out is clean.

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Just for fun I thought I would set the RK Leighton seat on the frame and see how it fits. Not really happy. Both the rear bolts are missing the tabs on the frame. I replaced the front mount that came on the seat with the original mount and I elongated the holes in it. I did get the seat on but it didn't drop into place. I'm hoping after a few rides the seat pan will deflect enough that it will mount easier.

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I'm playing with period correct lighting. This is something the dealer would have installed on a customer bike if they bought an MX but wanted lights. Obviously the correct Lucas head lamp and wire mounts are an option but the customer probably wouldn't have paid for the premium Lucas items when the Bates catalog had this set-up for under $15.

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:17 pm

Ready to install new swingarm needle bearings, spindle, side plate and nut. The bearings went in no problem. When I broke the swingarm down the spacer was held captive between the the needle bearings and couldn't be withdrawn until I knocked one of the bearings out. I'm not sure if this was the way BSA did it but rather than trying to jam the spacer back in between the needle bearings I installed one bearing dropped the spacer in and installed the other bearing.

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Everything went well. I greased the bearings and installed new zerks. Installed the bushings, plastic cover and washer on either side and prepared to install my new swingarm spindle. No Joy! The new swingarm spindle was getting stuck on one of the washers. I thought OK maybe one of the washers was a little snug. No problem I will pull the swingarm and trial fit the spindle with out the washers to see if anything else would bind. No Joy! The spindle wouldn't fit into the bushings either. Maybe a little 600 grit sandpaper would smooth out any imperfections in the new spindle and everything would slide in nicely with a little fitting. No Joy for the 3rd time! I contacted the supplier I bought it from and told them that the spindle was too big and that I thought they should know so they could contact their supplier and let them know. I didn't ask to return it or for a refund since I had polished it up a little with some sandpaper I would just chalk it up to experience and use the original one.

The offending spindle and where it binds on each of the washers and bushings:
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This is as far as the washer will go onto the spindle:
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This washer fits fine:
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Neither bushing fits past the threads:
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The washers and bushings fit fine on the original though:
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When compared to the original spindle the new one is obviously larger by the threads.
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So how did the well respected supplier respond to my email? They sold 4 of them this year and haven't had any complaints but mine. Since I am probably not the original owner I couldn't be sure my parts were original and therefore they won't fit. The spindle is supposed to fit tight so the fact that it is tight is normal. The spindles are made by MCA in England and they have been making them for years. The supplier has been in business for 40 years and never had any problems with parts from MCA.

Essentially it is my fault the brand new spindle doesn't fit the swingarm bushings and 1 of the washers. I won't name them because they did offer to refund my money if I sent it back.

Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby midgie » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:43 pm

The correct o/d for the spindle is .801". I agree with you that the pattern ones are indeed oversize. That's the standard supplier response that nobody else has had this problem, they just want to sell sub standard bits and don't care if its no use.

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby minetymenace » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:59 pm

You can always ask here where to get the best parts that DO fit, and the suppliers who care about returning customers, good reputation and mechanical empathy.

Name and shame, good and bad experiences show up on search engines.

Are the lengths the same?
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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:17 am

Are the lengths the same?


They are very close. The new spindle is longer but has the end welded on a little lower than the original.

Image

Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby minetymenace » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:25 am

I can recommend these. Full adjustment, correct size stronger than original.
and here.
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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:33 am

Wow. That is fantastic. Looks to be stainless as well. Why the 3 different sized plates?

Thanks
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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Barry Creary » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:47 am

I have them and the three different sizes are for very different chain adjustments which i have used :thumb great product and yes stainless <200

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby koncretekid » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:01 pm

Before you throw away the one you bought, check the OD beyond the threads. If I recall, the thread is 13/16" fine thread, but 13/16" is .8125" so the threaded area may have gotten raised up during the threading process and may just need to be turned or sanded down to .801" which may allow the shaft to pass thru the bearings. Odd, but the shaft itself may be OK to use.
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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:37 am

It's too cold in the garage to spend any time out there so I have been hunting for parts. I was able to grab some items that I wanted but thought would be difficult to find.

First up is the Y pipe for the dual mufflers that came on the 73 MX bikes. I had it ceramic coated glacier black.
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I had always knew I would run a tachometer on my bike but thought it would have to be one of the new digital Smiths units. I was able to find an NOS tach drive. Which put me on the hunt for an older Smiths tach. I dont like the 60mm tach with the 80mm speedo so I went with a 4:1 unit from the twins and triples. I've got a new cable on order from vintagebritishcables.com
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More to come....
Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:42 pm

More new parts:
Here is the most expensive tach cable in the Britbike world (probably not) which only fits the most expensive tach drive in the Britbike world (again probably not but lets say my budget has taken a huge hit recently and new rims/spokes may have to wait until fall).

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And now for the main attraction. Obviously the Y pipe is only worth having if you can get the dual mufflers and the original bracket. I ended up with 2 sets of dual mufflers. One set were dealer take offs that had been moved around and had some dings and dents. The other set I lucked into were NOS. There is a seller that had NOS top mufflers (part # 71-3750) for sale on ebay. I bought one of those to replace the top muffler I already had but this showed up instead.

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This is an NOS lower muffler part number 71-3751. I had contacted the seller previous to ordering and asked if he had the lower muffler but he said he didn't. So I contacted him again to let him know he sent me a lower muffler and I wanted to verify he also had the top muffler. He said he didn't even check the box but assumed they were all tops. It turns out he has 3 more lowers and more tops as well. So I ended up with a matched set of NOS dual mufflers and a set of dealer take offs that have some dings and shelf wear. Here are my NOS dual mufflers:

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So this got me thinking, how have these mufflers lasted 45 years in essentially new condition? And what else is still out there? When Cycle Hub sold its inventory in the early 2000s I thought we would see a flood of NOS parts but that never really happened. The buyers had a website where they sold parts for a while but I don't think they even sold 1/4 of what they originally bought. Possibly these mufflers came out of the Cycle Hub stash or another longtime dealer who sold off there inventory. Anyone know what ever happened to all those Cycle Hub parts?

Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby beat » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:26 pm

:shock: :shock: :shock: <205 <211

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Canberra » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:58 pm

Does he have the spark arrestors that fit in the ends? If not and wanted, a friend may have some in Oz.

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby minetymenace » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:08 pm

Rookster wrote:What sealer do people use to seal the cap nuts

Fibre washer for fun and safety, nothing is going to leak as that far up it is dry.

You expensive tacho may look good but aside from that it's only function is to sap hp.
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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:48 pm

Hi Guys

At the moment I am not looking for the spark arresters. They would be nice to have but they can wait. From what I could find online they are Krizman KS500 units and they are rarer than the mufflers.

I haven't read anything about the tach drive sapping HP. It spins freely. I took the pin out of it and cleaned the old grease out. There is a slight drag once the pin is put back in but it should wear in use pretty quickly. Is this a known issue with the tach drive?

Thanks
Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:35 am

We had a 60 degree day here in NY so I got the frame flushed out using gasoline. I used a cork stopper on the frame and poured gas in. I then agitated and rotated the frame and pulled the cork. The first few batches came out black but by the third rinse it was coming out clear. I did it a few more times just to be sure it was clean. The tote I was emptying the gas in had some nasty stuff at the bottom. All in all it was a pretty simple process. Don't ask what happened to the half filled tote full of black gas.

I had the sidecovers powder coated gloss black. They came out real nice. I ordered 4 new rubber grommets for the holes in the sidecovers. They were a complete pain to fit but I managed to get them in. The issue is that they are so tight that they don't want to stay on the tabs on the frame. With the oddie studs in place the lower tabs seems OK but the upper tab is only just catching the rubber grommet. Does this look normal? I have 2 shorter oddie studs that might push the sidecover back further but I'm worried if there is too much stress on the oddie studs the sidecover will just pop off. Any recommendations or wisdom?

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Thanks
Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:16 pm

I think I figured out the sidecover issue. There are 2 different sidecovers; 1971 sidecovers have small holes and 1972-73 sidecovers have larger holes. The earlier sidecover uses a smaller grommet part number 60-3161 and the later sidecover uses a top hat grommet part number 83-2006. I have the smaller hole sidecovers and the larger grommets. I just assumed they were all the same and looked up the 1972 part numbers when I ordered the grommets. Time to place another parts order. Here is a picture I found of the different size holes.

Image

Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby minetymenace » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:07 am

Would you do me a favour please Rookster? Would you quantify "Small" and "large" with a measurement? seeing the flange on the RH one, would you also measure the depth? Thanks.
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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:31 pm

Hi Gerry
I don't have any first-hand experience with the flanged hole sidecovers on the right in the picture. Both of mine look like the one on the left. I found this information and picture from an eBay auction by Ripe Motorcycles. Here is what it says in the description:

FOUR OF BSA OEM 83-2006

THESE ARE THE CORRECT SIDE PANEL "TOP HAT" FIXING GROMMETS USED ON 1972/3 OIF SINGLES AS WELL AS THE TRIUMPH TR5T ADVENTURER TROPHY TRAIL

THE LARGE REINFORCED 1/2" HOLE VERSION
To identify your side panels please compare to the pictures attached which show the small hole side panel with one of these grommets fitted alongside one of the later versions with it's top hat version.

BSA 83-2006 GROMMET
IS ALSO USED AT THE LOWER MOUNTING POINT FOR THE BATTERY TRAY AND FOR THE AIR BOX B25SS B50 & T25SS, T25T ALL YEARS

FOR THE SMALL HOLE SIDE PANEL GROMMET SEE MY OTHER LISTINGS
This grommet has a 1/4" i/d and fits a 1/2" diameter hole


When I saw that picture I checked the parts books and sure enough the 1971 book shows part # 60-3161. I did not take any pictures of the inside of my sidecovers with the grommets installed. I have since pulled them out.

Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:34 pm

I measured the holes in my sidecovers. This is a 3/8 drill bit and it just fits.

Image

Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Ian Hingley » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:26 pm

RIPE Motorcycles really know their stuff about B50s
Roy and Chris Pellett are both frequent visitors to this forum.
You can link straight to their site from the button near the top of this page.

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby minetymenace » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:00 pm

What Ian said :ok
Thanks for relaying the info...
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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:06 am

I got the sidecovers figured out. The correct smaller grommets and oddie studs were ordered and the fit is perfect. I tried my hand at water slide transfers. These were ordered from the VMCC. I layed out the measurements to center the transfer in the middle of the sidecover. I tried to line them up with the top edge of the sidecover. This means they will probably be running uphill when the bike is back on its wheels. I used 2 coats of clear gloss marine varnish to finish them off.

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There has been some developments on my alloy tank. The dents are being removed. I should have it back in a few weeks for paint touch up and pinstriping.

Left side
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Right side
Image

Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby minetymenace » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:01 am

Rookster wrote:The dents are being removed


How? Dou you have a dent fairy?
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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby midgie » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:32 pm

That's looking very nice.

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:06 pm

Thanks Midgie. I sent the tank to Joe Abbate's Cycle Therapy in California. He restores vintage dirtbikes and specializes in aluminum tank restorations. Usually he cuts the tunnel out of the tank and uses a hammer and dolly to reshape the dents and welds the tunnel back in. In my case he said he would just have to put 2 holes in the tunnel. He still has the tank as there was another dent that he is still working on. I should have it back in a few weeks time.

Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Radman » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:21 am

Dent therapy - thats good to know !

Thanks

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:15 pm

I started making the wiring harness. So far I have concentrated on ignition and charging. The goal is a very simple system.

The p.o. was not an electrical engineer that's for sure. I threw out all his wiring but was left with some bodges to clean up. He wanted a fancy connector for his reg/rec unit so he spliced one in with crimp-on connectors. This made some of the leads really short and butchered the alternator wiring / conduit.
Here it is with the conduit pulled away:
Image

Cheap crimp on connectors and yellow wires:
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I didn't want to spend $20 on a couple of feet of the correct green/yellow and white/green striped wire so I substituted 16 gauge (16 strand) solid green and solid white wire. Soldered and shrink wrapped:
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New conduit added and shrink wrapped at the oily end:
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Here is the wiring diagram I made up:
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Here is the coil, ignition capacitor and reg/rec unit in place on the bike:
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I am using Japanese 4mm bullet connectors with clear shields to make connections:
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This showed up last week:
Image

Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby minetymenace » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:52 pm

You going for +ve earth? <201 Any reason? You need to ground the +ve side of the battery.
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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:01 am

Yes +ve ground. I will run dedicated grounds from the battery to the frame and the motor.
Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby minetymenace » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:04 am

Also, you only need a battery about quarter that size if all you are running is ignition.
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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby beat » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:41 pm

minetymenace wrote:You going for +ve earth? Any reason?

Rookster wrote:Yes +ve ground.


I can not se any good reason for + earth .
all modern bikes have + in wires and are much faster in top speed isn't it :?: :?:

;-)

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:40 pm

I don't have any logical reason to use +ve ground other than thats how it was originally built. Will the components be effected by switching to -ve ground? I would be concerned with the alternator and reg/rec unit.

Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby minetymenace » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:42 pm

Your bike would have been -ve earth out of the factory. Its is easy to convert (at the moment). The only reason why you might want to swap it round now is that if you put lights on it (and you have a big enough battery for that!!), -ve earth LED's are much easier to come by. If you ever want to put any modern electronics sat nav, electronic tacho, fag lighter etc, your choice is much wider if you have -ve earth.

All you need do is put the fuse on the +ve side of the battery, turn the coil round, move the wire to the ig switch to between the fuse and the rect/reg and earth the -ve side of the battery.

But it is your bike, and the only way to build it is the way that makes you happy, if you follow our advice, you will end up with one of our bikes!
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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:28 am

I will be running a headlight and tail light. Here is the wiring diagram for the lighting. The harness is finished up and ready to go.

Image

Image

With the wiring done I moved to the rear wheel. The hub was stripped of the terrible brushed on black paint and painted silver. The rim is an 18" WM3 flanged alloy. Supposedly it is made in the same Italian factory as the new Borranni rims. I'm not sure I believe that but it was just what I was looking for. I got it laced up with stainless spokes and nipples from Buchanan's and will true it up tomorrow.

Image

Image


Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Fri May 04, 2018 11:04 pm

Update:
The bike is back on its wheels. I have to send the front rim out for drilling. It is a 19" flanged alloy rim. I decided against the 21" rim for a few reasons. It was difficult to find a matching flanged 21" rim with the correct drilling for the larger conical hub. I also reconciled the fact that this will be primarily a street bike so the 19" rim seemed like a better fit. The same goes for the Dunlop K70 tires. They seemed like a better option than dual sport tires on the street.

Image

Here it is so far. Hopefully it will be On the road before the end of summer.

Image

Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby Rookster » Tue May 15, 2018 2:26 pm

Small Update: The tank is back from having the dents removed. The goal was to salvage the original paint and add new red pinstripes and decals. That turned out to be impossible due to a dent within the painted area on the side. I finished removing the paint and polished the rest of the tank. For now it will stay bare polished with no paint. Possibly in the future I will add the original style cross in Hi Violet. I bolted up the mufflers to give the final shape to the bike. I'm waiting to get the front rim back from being drilled so I can then refurbish the front hub and lace with new stainless spokes and nipples. Here it is so far:

Image

Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - B50SS Project

Postby mlb50 » Thu May 17, 2018 2:08 am

That is looking really nice. Going to be a hoot thrashing it around the streets!
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