The Beast Of Minety

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What do I call it (put on the tank)?

BSA
17
41%
Triumph (it is registered as a T25)
6
15%
TriBSA
2
5%
Bsumph (Beezumph etc)
2
5%
PEST (Performance Engineering Services Triumph)
10
24%
Something else (e.g. Triumph one side, BSA the other)
4
10%
 
Total votes: 41

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by HPbyStan » Sat May 24, 2014 7:35 pm

Image
Good place for a pipe right !

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by beat » Sat May 24, 2014 8:16 pm

under slung ? :roll:
DSCN2234.jpg
a bit tricky to keep free space for the kickstarter
beat :grin:

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by Chris Pellett » Sun May 25, 2014 8:52 am

I remember a distinctive Cheney racing in the 70's with the underslung exhaust, haven't any pics but found this on the net
Image
http://classic-motorbikes.net/images/ga ... sa-b50.jpg
I recall the short CCM type silencer exiting on the left below the chain.
Did look good.

I think using the standard high level pipe sometimes shows lack of imagination - something the beast should not be accused of.

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Chris

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by Ian Hingley » Sun May 25, 2014 10:01 pm

Stan's looks best to me!

Ian
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by steve m » Mon May 26, 2014 3:41 am

Ian Hingley wrote:Stan's looks best to me!
not bad, but could do with a bit more support <201 .....say, with a bra :shock:

steve

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by HPbyStan » Mon May 26, 2014 5:13 am

steve m wrote:
Ian Hingley wrote:Stan's looks best to me!
not bad, but could do with a bit more support <201 .....say, with a bra :shock:

steve
Come on Steve, I'm in America and our capital isn't called Womens Breasts and that pipe doesn't need a bra as it is mounted to the front engine bolt and the two SuperTrapps are mounted to the frame with a "T" shaped bracket just ahead of the discs. B50icon

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by b50root » Mon May 26, 2014 8:03 am

Would love to have Stans bike as a street bike. <910

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by steve m » Mon May 26, 2014 10:28 am

:oops: i think i'm being chastised. sorry mate. just havin' a laugh. i love your bikes Stan and i know how much thought you put in to them and how much each and every one of them means to you. i don't know what i was thinkin'.

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by roadplough » Mon May 26, 2014 10:36 am

Yes for the street, I think you're on the right track Steve, "lift and separate"

My problem with a low pipe is the sump but maybe the pipe could separate before the sump to run smaller diameters both sides of it and use long TR5MX type mufflers. 778

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by skippy » Mon May 26, 2014 2:02 pm

I must apologise for I have had a good laugh about those 2 protusions underneath stans bike and the comments that have arisen about it. :oops: I will try to be better in the future. <209
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by minetymenace » Mon May 26, 2014 3:05 pm

Going for under slung with a short reverse cone. exiting on the RHS. I do have an exhaust of an earlier pre-unit Gold Star, but think it is too long for the beast....Front end first, I'll explain my problems (Roadie knows) with the front mudguard, when I have recovered from taking 3 teenagers down the Wye in spate :shock:
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by HPbyStan » Mon May 26, 2014 3:07 pm

skippy wrote:I must apologise for I have had a good laugh about those 2 protusions underneath stans bike and the comments that have arisen about it. :oops: I will try to be better in the future. <209
LOL, Hi Doug. That system came about when I was trying to get Jimmy Sumner to cut as fast a lap on half mile ovals with my 600cc Rotax as he could do with my 510cc BSA. Those old 3 inch SuperTrapps flow as much as an open exhaust pipe up to a 1.5 inch dia. head pipe on my Flowbench but choke the flow quite badly as the pipe dia. gets bigger. The Rotax had two 1.5 pipes from the head and I woke up in the middle of the night once thinking TWO SuperTrapps and wrote it down so I wouldn't forget. That was such a sucess on the Rotax by smoothing out the power delivery without killing HP that I tried the system on a KLR 612cc K a w a s a k i with one large dia head pipe with a one into two 1.5 stubs with dual Trapps and that worked good as well so That's how the system ended up on the 585cc B50. I'm not sure what effect putting a bra over the "protusions" would have had as even though I try to think "out of the box", that hadn't occurred to me.... Stan
BTW, SuperTrapps distructions said to use a head pipe around a foot / 12 inches shorter with the Trapps. Didn't make sense to me at the time but it seems they knew their product.

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by steve m » Tue May 27, 2014 12:16 pm

HPbyStan wrote:Come on Steve, I'm in America and our capital isn't called Womens Breasts
yeah, i'm slow :roll: but it's all John. P from Canberra's fault..he started all this ;-)
the M&T pipe with the UPSWEPT Goldie muffler looks great i reckon and it seems it swings around the left of the sump and might have a bit of a kink in it.

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by Canberra » Tue May 27, 2014 2:40 pm

Right on!!!!

P92 started my thinking and the 2 longer mufflers I run are 1 5/8 on a 1 3/4 header underslung clearing my sump plug and no modification to the kickstart lever so all good. Same result as Stan with better engine running without choking. Looking at the number of discs on the two supertrapps I guess they are really free flowing - would love to hear it running. Years ago I ran my B50 on a single supertrapp and used to change discs depending on town or country running in NZ. Great items.

Go for it Gerry. It'll add some real mystery to the Beast.

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by Canberra » Wed May 28, 2014 1:38 pm

Just takes a bit of ingenuity. I had a single long muffler so just bought a second one or I would have gone with a pair of short length ones.
Rear Header and mufflers jpg.jpg
Tucks under frame
Twin Muffler header jpg.JPG
Downpipe with a twist
Twin Muffler header jpg.JPG (53.87 KiB) Viewed 5338 times
Go on Minety, match the look of the triple and keep anyone following you guessing.
John

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by beat » Wed May 28, 2014 8:25 pm

Canberra wrote:Go on Minety,
Yeas! -- but look for a Stainless Steel Version for the beast so they are not taken away by the corrosion until the BEAST is running first time....
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by AJ CCM » Wed May 28, 2014 10:53 pm

Minety Go for a Stainless Steel Exhaust see link below
Mines the CCM B50 in Sample Exhausts

http://www.osmc.co.uk
Regards AJ CCM

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by minetymenace » Wed May 28, 2014 11:30 pm

Lots of eye candy, thanks guys. I am going to start at the front and work backwards, the last thing is going to be the shocks (I need to know how heavy the bike will be once I have added all tis weight), the penultimate thing is the exhaust, and before that the seat...but I am still trying to fit the f-ing front mudguard!
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by roadplough » Thu May 29, 2014 2:28 am

Is it as ill fitting as this Wassell? ("Wassell" has just the right phonetic inflection to describe cheap crap that doesn't work) :ban
ContiEscape19.jpg
The stays are actually touching the 100/90 profile tyre, as well as not parallel to the mounts, etc etc :laugh

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by minetymenace » Thu May 29, 2014 10:16 am

The first problem I have is that on the Trumpet front end, the lugs on the fork tubes are flush with the tubes. This means that the clamps that grip the wire stays need to be spaced out 3/8". Not sure if this makes sense, I'll take a picture if I can borrow a camera, then I will have the problem of the stays touching the tyre..... :(
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by minetymenace » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:08 pm

Trying to keep the project going with no money, I have decided to start at the front and work back. (This also means that Mark should be better by the time I get to the rear sets, exhaust and small mod to the hydraulic clutch).
So fitting the front mudguard should be straight forward, but as I have a trumpet front end, the bosses on the fork tubes do not stick out far enough to accept the Beesa wire stayed guard (Trumpets have a horse shoe bracket and sticks to the axel caps, yuck!). In a few minutes I had made up some spacers,
IMG_3347.JPG
Spacer
and mounted the Wassel mudguard. Some things should be tight but an interference fit with the tyre was only one problem. The arc centre is a mile away from the wheel spindle and the gap between the tyre and the mudguard IMHO looks too great, which is not great, if you know what I mean.
IMG_3346.JPG
Huge gap between tyre and mudguard
So I am going to cut the stays off and bend them to make things good and get a friend who can weld to stick it back together.
A couple of questions: This is supposed to be a stainless mudguard, but fear that the exact translation from Chinese to English or vicky verky, leaves a lot to be desired. Can I bend the wires cold, or would it be better to use some heat? (I have a torch, which won’t come anywhere near melting the metal, but should be able to get it cherry red if required.) If I discolour the metal, will I be able to polish out the blemish (knowing my luck, it will catch fire!)?
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by beat » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:04 pm

hi minety,
both is possible, cold ore hot bending.
it is just important as it is done SLOWLY, - work in slow Steps if possible.
evan the dark color after heating is easy to remove: a scotch pad ore a grindingpaper ore some acid for a half hour on the surface will do it, no problem
beat

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by minetymenace » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:12 pm

Thanks beat, should I hammer it, or bend it in a jig?
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by Richard Hunt » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:12 pm

Oh dear Minety. The front end setup on my B50 café is basically T140 I used a standard T140 (can't remember what letter) short chrome mudguard and fitting from Ray Fishers (years ago - Gerry Fishers suggestion) No problem with a large gap between guard and tyre, all standard parts and I think it looks great. If I were you I would go that route. If the cash isn't there at present - wait till it is. You can take the stick from others here about length of time - you already have.
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by minetymenace » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:45 pm

Richard, I don't like the T140 mounting, and midifying the mudguard I have won't cost a bean....just got to make it fit and look pretty <069, anyway, it stops me doing the bathroom that has taken as long as 778 :oops:
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by roadplough » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:11 am

Your Wassel might be a bigger radius than my Wassel by the look of it, my gap is a bit less and matches a 19 tyre.
Yours might be high enough to cop a dent from the steering spindle under full suspension compression?

Cutting the stays off just short of the welds may be a better option than the way I went, it's too easy to deform the area of guard at the weld even using heat to bend 'em. I used a propane torch and more or less succeeded because I had a suitable clamp, an english wheeler to hold the guard leaving 2 hands free to do 3 things.
The advantage of that was to visually check symmetry as I went.
Cutting the stays off means they can be bent cold which will leave shallower bending tool grip marks in the wire, welding them on again to the wire stubs will be much easier than welding to the thin guard itself assuming they've been attached in the correct vicinity in the first place, probably not.

When it comes to polishing any bluing off the guard you may discover that the factory polish job is not what it seems.
Lacking pickling paste or acid I used fine wet paper which exposed the rather deep marks and ripples made by the fully imported Indian craftsperson forcing the guard against a ragged buffing wheel. It's made in England they say! Reluctant to caste aspersions but construction and finish is typical of much Indian made stuff.
DSCF4381.jpg
Angle of stays is incorrect
DSCF4389.jpg
And guard is twisted
DSCF4395.jpg
Cutting the stays relieved most of the twist
DSCF4397.jpg
Problem with my method getting new bends really close to the welds
DSCF4396.jpg
ready to re-weld the central stays to the rears
DSCF4888.jpg
Stay clamps are home made stainless. More work to do on it yet


Hope all that gives you a few pointers Minety.

My guard needs moving forward a little which means grinding the welds from the abutment ring things and repositioning.
I don't mind the gap as long as it's the same all round, at least until I see if that NOS Dunlop 20inch nobby :grin: hangin' in the background fits under it as is.
Have to let the air out of the 100/90 tyre to get it past the stay clamps.

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by minetymenace » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:05 am

Thank you Roadie, you know where I'm coming from! I was going to cut the wire from the guard but take your point of leaving stubs on the guard, will ask my welder before I start cutting. I am beginning to think it would have been easire to start with a plain guard and some SS rod. If the fit is this bad, it is surprising that Wassal sell any mud guards.
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by Barry Creary » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:54 am

Hi MM i bought this mudguard from Trogan classic spares as a universal fit and it looks ok but has know wire stays and is quite strong but not BSA <122
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by roadplough » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:00 am

minetymenace wrote: it is surprising that Wassal sell any mud guards.
They're cheap-ish.
Suggest to your welder that the area around the weld could be fairly thin after the makers polished out bluing/distortions caused by the welding, apparently.

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by beat » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:32 pm

minetymenace wrote: should I hammer it, or bend it in a jig?
bend it in a jig, do it stepwise and slow mooving. - and it gos everiwhere you wantd it.
beat

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by minetymenace » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:24 pm

Cut the stays off and straightened them. I didn't leave any material on the guard as the stays will not go back on in the same position. The welds look like they were pood from the derrière of a pigeon, I haven't tried, but I'm sure I could do better, they were 50% slag and one just fell off.
IMG_3355.JPG
It slipped down and back as I took the photo
IMG_3356.JPG
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by AJ CCM » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:01 pm

beat wrote:hi minety,
both is possible, cold ore hot bending.
it is just important as it is done SLOWLY, - work in slow Steps if possible.
evan the dark color after heating is easy to remove: a scotch pad ore a grindingpaper ore some acid for a half hour on the surface will do it, no problem
beat
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by minetymenace » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:49 pm

Its my thick skin that slows me down :roll:
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by Mark Cook » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:00 pm

Just mock it up Gerry and I'll TIG weld them on next time your up here.
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by beat » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:04 pm

minetymenace wrote:my thick skin
I would say : you need a thick skin by all the " frends " they are teasing you.... :oops:
beat :mrgreen:

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by Richard Hunt » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:24 pm

MM throw that Wassell c**p away and as you want a "wire" mudguard contact Chris Williams at Autocycle Engineering in the Midlands, you will get the correct mudguards and stays that come from the tooling that supplied them in the first place to BSA/Triumph. The finished result will look a lot better.
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by midgie » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:47 pm

Richard Hunt wrote:MM throw that Wassell c**p away and as you want a "wire" mudguard contact Chris Williams at Autocycle Engineering in the Midlands, you will get the correct mudguards and stays that come from the tooling that supplied them in the first place to BSA/Triumph. The finished result will look a lot better.
Rich
could not agree more Richard, I wouldn't let any wassell product supplied by them or any of their vendors near my bikes. they have no shame and take classic bike owners for fools. regards midgie.

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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by minetymenace » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:55 pm

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, funding prevents further spending on non-essential parts, so I am going to use what I have....but as I am starting at the front and working back, who can make a seat (metal or glass fibre)? I will supply a wooden pattern....by the time I get round to that, maybe I'll have some more funds, but at present I am planning to GRP ( Glass Reinforced Plastic ) it myself (can't be any different from making a kayak).
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Reason: Made an explanation for all of us who don´t always understand Short words.
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by Richard Hunt » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:11 pm

Just one last thing on your front mudguard - have the rolled edges, where the wire stays are welded on, been fattened in these fixing areas, as on the originals. It makes welding the wire stays in their correct positions a lot easier. Also Chris just might sell you some new wire stays relatively cheaply, I know in the past he had some stainless ones.

Rich

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minetymenace
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Re: The Beast Of Minety

Post by minetymenace » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:51 pm

Hi Rich, yes, the edges are rolled and flattened (front and back, not top), you can see this in one of the photos (just), but when I re-position the mudguard, the rear stay will not line up with the existing flat bit as it is straight back from the mount, but the front stay has a bend in it so I can land that in the same place.

To reiterate, I am using what I've got, bashing and bending costs nowt, and six blobs of weld is a favour owed which I will be calling in. When my children become rich and famous, I can always buy a better one, but the cheque book build has come to an end for now, its only a mudguard after all.

I need to space the disc out by about 40 thou, now as this is a cafe racer, I should take 1mm or so off the caliper or the fork leg (removing weight) and if money was no object this is the way I would go, but for the moment I'm going to shim the disc 'cause I have the technology to do this, and when the boat comes in I can do some weight reduction....
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