Victor Enduro B44EA2312

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby minetymenace » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:58 pm

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:24 pm

I've been promised that my new replacement fork tubes are on their way. I need to know if the spacers I found at the bottom of the parts jumble I had are indeed the spacers item 20 part number 68-5134 and in what sequence do they go? Their shape seems to suggest a place for the springs to sit, which would position them above the oil seals, not below as shown. Who can answer this?

BSA B44 forks.pdf
(77.07 KiB) Downloaded 15 times
[attachment=1]
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fork spacers 68-5134.jpg
fork spacers 68-5134.jpg (17.9 KiB) Viewed 2062 times
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:40 pm

67 fork schematic.jpg
it didn't seem to like a pdf. Here is the manual schematic of what I'm talking about. It doesn't make sense where they show it?
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby gunnag » Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:31 pm

The parts list is correct, the spacers are designed to fit under the oil seals and above the fork bushing. Note the correct orientation is with the narrow inside edge facing up.

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:14 am

Note the correct orientation is with the narrow inside edge facing up


I need to disagree with you Gunnag.
The only way they will fit is with the smaller ID facing down and holding the upper fork bushing in place.
If you flip it around with the smaller ID facing up there will be nothing holding the bushing in place and the fork seal holder won't thread on all the way.

upper bushing in lower slider.jpg
upper fork bushing in lower fork slider


spacer and bushing in lower slider.jpg
spacer inserted, perfectly holding bushing in place. If you flip it around the bushing is free to move up and down.


top bush spacer seal and seal holder.jpg
this arrangement is the only way the whole assembly will fit together. The BSA schematic is wrong.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:49 am

It's taken about 2 full years but I've finally collected all the parts to build the forks.
I know that many BSA riders from the era replaced their BSA forks for something better but I like the look of the 67 and earlier set up. The solid fork covers look older than the rubber gaiters of the 68 and later. The way the axle mounts is much tidier. Old school cool <200

fork components ready for assembly.jpg
I waited about 2 years for delivery of the replacement fork tubes. I found spring covers on Ebay meant for the Gold Star. Much of the damper rods and internals I salvaged from another set of forks off Ebay. I bought new bushings, oil seals, rubbers, washers and circlips.


The bare metal fork tubes will be exposed between the triple trees so I plan to paint that section black once installed.

Now I just need to figure out the sequence of putting them together. <201
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:29 am

forks some assembly required.jpg
forks nearly assembled. The next major milestone will be to have a rolling chassis.
everything seems to fit pretty good. I watched a video on you-tube of a guy assembling Triumph forks and he was not happy with the slop he found with the new bushings.
These bushings fit the lower sliders and new fork tubes pretty good as far as I can tell. Walridge are pretty good about knowing what products measure up.

Obviously the oil seals and their holders need to slide on from the bottom of the tube before installing the bushings.
I put some sealant on the new oil seals and slid them 1/2 way into place by hand with a big socket then used the spacer and lower slider to push them in the rest of the way. Special tools not needed. BSA suggests using twine to seal the lower sliders to the oil seal holders, is this what everyone still uses? This joint tightens up pretty good on its own, has anyone tried anything else? I've read that later forks have O-rings.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Padleigh » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:10 am

I use PTFE tape which, if twisted between finger and thumb becomes PTFE string to nicely fill the groove where the string goes. Grease on the threads and nip up with the proper tool.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:19 pm

I use PTFE tape which


Hi Brendan, I'm not familiar with PTFE, is this just teflon tape for sealing threads?
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby minetymenace » Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:52 pm

Teflon is Dupont's brand name for PTFE :razz:
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby gunnag » Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:07 pm

Simmy you are right, the BSA parts book is wrong!

It was a few years ago when I assembled the forks on my B44 and A65 and remember having the same confusion, hence my wrong advise.

Looking at your pictures everything is now clear so lets hope this serves as a reference for everyone :grin:

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:01 am

I discovered my one lower fork slider is slightly bent so the fork jams up at about 3/4 stroke.
Its not really apparent, I didn't notice it when I sandblasted and painted it.I tried honing it out myself with a brake honing tool but gave up and took it to a professional bike/machine shop.
He tried to bend it straight which just made it worse. This fork slider is scrap.
bent slider web size.jpg
bent slider was not noticed before taking the trouble to sandblast and paint


This is a slight set back. I have the other BSA lower sliders with the fender mounts facing to the front. I can use them or look for a replacement 67 Vic brake side slider.

other sliders web size.jpg
I was hoping to be done with cleaning 50 year old grease and oil.


I've started cleaning up these other fork sliders, I have to make the fender stays to mount the 21" alloy fender anyway so it doesn't matter where the bracket is at this point.
If I use these it will make my Victor just a little bit more qwerky. I like that.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby kommando » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:05 am

If its the brake side slider I have one with the exact same issue, not tried to fix it. Maybe the welding on of the brake stop arm warped the slider.

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:55 pm

yes it is the brake side. This pile of parts had a bent swing arm, broken frame and bent forks.
I suspect this thing fell off a cliff or tangled with a Buick.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:32 pm

BSA 441 Victor rolling chassis Apr 2015 web.jpg
the saga I had with the front forks is finally over. The re-laced front wheel is perfectly centred between fork legs. The old brake cable I have will not adjust enough to tighten the brake so a new cable will be ordered. New clutch lever found on ebay for $11, again the one I had would not fit the new clutch cable.


stays web.jpg
I found these fender stays for a Triumph. Modifying these to fit the 21" wheel will look closer to stock than making some from scratch.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Mon May 11, 2015 5:55 pm

IMG_0204.jpg
new peanut silencer fits perfect


IMG_0207.jpg
Apparently the replicas of the 441 GP silencer are unobtanium. Fit and finish on the OEM peanut style hard to fault.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:05 am

I've given up trying to get this vintage Magura brake lever to work with the BSA cable brake.
It won't stroke enough and the barrel shaped keeper at the lever end fits too loose -not safe.
Back to ebay to find a matching brake for my Chinese clutch lever.

Magura.jpg
Magura lever not compatible with BSA brake cable



chinese grip kill switch clutch british decompression.jpg
Chinese waffle grip, kill switch & clutch and original British decompression lever


clutch decompression controls.jpg


new clutch cable.jpg
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby minetymenace » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:43 am

ref the brake lever. Although the stroke looks small, if you adjust the front brake properly, you might be able to use it. The problem with the cable should be simple to resolve, the individual bits are easily obtainable, and there will be someone local that can fit the nipples.....but e-bay may be simpler as you say. Keep up the good work :thumb
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:42 am

problem solved Minetymenace, I hope - I ordered the match for the clutch $11.99 + shipping.

I now have a problem with the clutch. I had to take it apart anyway because I assembled the rack & pinion too far so the cable wouldn't fit.
Regardless which teeth I line up between the rack and pinion it occasionally jams up. I suspect there is too much wear between the rack and the hole it slides in.
I've inspected the teeth on the pinion and on the rack, I can't see any burrs or anything.
Anyone else see this before?

Also does anyone know where the lever should line up with the case when its level with it's hole?
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clutch lever rack pinion.jpg
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:54 am

I decided to remove the pipe to make removing the engine case easier.
When I removed the pipe I felt something rattling around.
When I dumped the pipe it had dog food in it.
dog food in pipe.jpg


then I saw dog food in the exhaust

then I saw it was packed all the way to the valve. I was lucky the valve was closed or else the freakin mice would have dumped even further.

dog food all the way to valve.jpg


Sometimes this bike is enough of a project without getting F'd up by mice!
Last winter I trapped a whole family of mice. I do believe they're gone, the dog is gone to so there won't be dog food either.
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dog food.jpg
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Jack Gifford » Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:02 am

When my B50 first started it blasted cat food out the exhaust! :lol:
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby beat » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:37 pm

Hmmmm,
this says as you guys do coddle your mouses !

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:19 pm

I stuck with my original idea for the electrical box I mocked up with cardboard. I used thin gauge aluminum sheet. I'd like to get a few edges welded up but that can wait until later. It's plenty strong for now. Now I need to make some fittings to hold a side panel to hide all this.

IMG_0430.jpg
new electrical box


IMG_0429.jpg
this will keep the mud out of the electrical box


IMG_0433.jpg
there is currently a big air space between the frame and the seat base. I've got a block of wood there for now. I've seen some rubber vibration isolators the size of small hockey pucks. I'm planning to use them in place of the wood. The seat looks goofy raised up like it is, I think if I can get a sidecover to extend up to the seat it will hide this area anyway.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Ian Hingley » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:33 pm

Lol, only a Canuck would measure things by the size of a hockey puck! (That's ice hockey to us Europeans)
My son is a big Bruins fan, so I'm picking things up slowly...

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:23 pm

Let me tell you about my ideas using "crazy carpet", LOL
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:49 am

I hope what I discovered today is the final curve I'm thrown on this project.
I decided to tackle the carb, stripping it down to see if I have the correct internals.
It turns out I have a left-handed carb with the tickler on the left, completely opposite to the manuals.
It seems to be clean but has a 290 main jet and 108 needle jet. The pilot 25 seems to be correct.
Stock requires 240,107 and 25.
It's missing the throttle stop screw and the plug on top of the mixing chamber to cover the air slide .
The bore measures 30 mm so I will order the correct parts and see how it goes.
There are no markings on the needle so I assume they are all the same.

IMG_0446.jpg
tickler on left is opposite to the manual?
Attachments
IMG_0448.jpg
the Haynes manual specs a '3' throttle slide, this one says 2-1/2? Does anyone know what these numbers refer to?
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby HPbyStan » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:28 am

The number on the bottom of the slide is the "cutaway" number. The lower the number = the richer the mixture as the less cutaway speeds up the flow of air past the jetting and that picks up more fuel. If you have to use the wrong one, yours is in the good direction because you can just grind a little more cutaway to lean the mixture up. Just cut very little as it doesn't take much.

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:06 am

OK thanks Stan, a replacement is only $23.60 so I'm going that route.
I just priced up all the components including a new slide, o-rings, screws, jets etc for under $50, much less than a complete replacement carb.
Walridge suggest a 3.5 slide, 240 main and .106 needle jet.
Haynes list a 3 slide, 230 main and .107 needle jet.
Which way to go?
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:33 pm

August 3 2015 carb slide.jpg
now that I see a 3-1/2 next to a 2-1/2 I wouldn't have a problem modifying this.
That would sure screw someone up if they had one modified by the PO and still stamped 2 -
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:48 pm

I've had a change of plans. From Rickman Motorcycles in the UK I ordered actual 441GP replica sidecovers and a front oval number plate. The battery box I fabricated to house the YTX5L battery common to my KTM just wouldn't fit under the new sidecover. Searching the forum archives for appropriate batteries suggested just about any 12V battery would work.

IMG_0486.jpg
Replica 441GP sidecover from Rickman Motorcycles


IMG_0487.jpg
I have some proper fasteners coming with oversize button-heads


IMG_0484.jpg
Hex bar couplers with threads to match the button-head bolts will be used to stand-off the covers to the right depth. This frame is a work in progress, I will need to mount the battery inside this.


IMG_0481.jpg
battery intended for emergency back up for medical device

IMG_0482.jpg
I chose this one because it was very slim but still 2Ah so my battery charger won't burn it up. I have no idea how much current the BSA alternator pushes out through the Podtronics regulator or how much current the Boyer ignition needs, hopefully this battery will work. More work will be required to fit it into the aluminum frame under construction. I've seen another poster mount a plate under the seat to hold the ignition module and regulator. I think I'll do the same.


I've played with the new sidecover for the RH side. It will fit over the oil tank if I cut out a hole for the filler neck and cap. More to come.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby minetymenace » Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:07 pm

Simmy wrote:how much current the BSA alternator pushes out


Current is "drawn", not pushed!! That setup will be fine, when running, the bike runs off the alternator, the battery is only there to keep the lights going while you find your keys and get it started. All is good. :thumb
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:57 am

Thanks Minety, It was actually your post I read from the archives to educate myself about what is actually needed for basic battery requirements. With no lights or kick starter not much demand on it.

IMG_0498.jpg
Sometimes I get lucky. A standard 6mm coupling nut happened to be the exact length needed to stand the cover off. I expected I would need to add spacers or grind them down.


IMG_0503.jpg
Currently waiting on a whole batch of 6mm extra large button headed bolts from e-bay. The same style the Japanese bikes use on fairings. I've used some metric fasteners on this bike where it makes sense. I'm a metric convert for sure.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby minetymenace » Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:50 am

Simmy wrote:I'm a metric convert for sure.


Joseph Whitworth will be turning in his grave :roll:

Looking Good :thumb
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:09 am

with the addition of a few metric bolts this bike has probably 5 different thread forms now.
I have spent quite a bit on replacement original fasteners for this project. I must say all the threads are perfect, for being a basket case I found all the internal threads everywhere in perfect condition. Most fasteners are now new.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby beat » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:39 pm

minetymenace wrote:Joseph Whitworth will be turning in his grave


Let him rotate :!: :!: :!:

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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby minetymenace » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:34 pm

:roll:
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:15 pm

IMG_0515.jpg
I bought lots of these grommets. Very good to have around for spares.

IMG_0521.jpg

IMG_0525.jpg

IMG_0528.jpg
not quite hockey pucks. These are going under the seat in place of the block of wood there for now.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:47 am

its been a while since an update on the Vic. I think I'm pretty much done with wiring now. As soon as I put the fuse in and install the new spark plug, cap & wire it should spark with a kick.

Wrats under the hood.jpg

I screwed the new Podtronics module to the underside of the seat pan.
I picked out the rubber isolators to the exact gap I had between the seat and frame. This little bit of rubber might save my old aching back, I'm skeptical a dirt bike from the 60's can soak up any good size bumps. Especially when BSA gave you the exact same suspension for riding on the road or off it. &lt;069
I used one of them to bolt down anything needing a ground. I put another ground wire up near the coil as I read several times to make sure of good grounding

Wunder the hood.jpg


Wbattery next to Boyer box.jpg


the battery and the Boyer ignition box squeezed in next to the oil tank

Wcoil wires.jpg
I wonder how long this will take to break off from vibrations?

Wwiring main.jpg
I used some black plastic tubing I had for conduit to run the wires to the coil and the kill switch up on the handlebars.


The new throttle cable I ordered was too tight and holding the slide open. I had to remove some of the outer cable casing, now it has the correct play but I wish the cable was a couple inches longer. It works for now but not happy about that.
The brake cable I ordered also for a 67 Vic the casing is too short and only just catches enough brake to slow the wheel.
I made use of an old Doherty throttle handle but had to find a ferrule to hold the cable at the housing.
I might have to learn to solder nipples on and just make my own cables.

ferrule.jpg



I've got about a 21 point hit list of things still to complete. My goal now is to complete for April 2016.
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby minetymenace » Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:33 am

Looking good :grin:
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Re: Victor Enduro B44EA2312

Postby Simmy » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:49 pm

I used a bastard file to shape a hole for the oil filler and shaved material away at the bottom to fit around the oil strainer plug. I'll probably just use cable ties to hold this side in place. The existing locations for the fasteners would require modifications to the oil tank to do it properly.
RH sidecover.jpg
Disguising my oil tank to look like an OIF 441GP.
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