74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

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74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:24 am

Hi All,

Been sniffing around on here for a little while to get a bit of a feel for what I would be getting into building one of these 500's and finally decided to take the plunge as I was offered a bike last week very close to home.
My dad (Ken) passed away a year ago and he was a motorcycle nut. He restored many bikes mostly BSA's and Velocettes. Unfortunately I had to sell all of his bikes excecpt one as I'm in SoCal and he was in England. I kept his 1959 BSA Road Rocket (RGS replica). I followed in his footsteps with the love of bikes and racing. He taught me so much about bikes and restoration and I am passing that knowledge on to my son also who will be helping me with this project. I'm going to dedicate this build to my dad.
So I picked up this 1974 TR5MX (wish I could have found an actual beezer but this is close enough) which I am told is actually 570cc. Supposedly only ran a couple of times after a rebuild but that was about 1985 so it will be a full engine strip down. I got two sets of wheels with it the road going wheels that are on it with the shouldered alloys and and odd set that I was told and I believe to be true are the offroad hubs. Seems odd that the front offroad rim is an 18" job though. The bike has a California road title <200
This will not be an actual restoration job but I am not quite sure of the exact direction of the bike yet. Most likely it will end up in mx trim but not original. I have always wanted a vintage 4stroke mx bike so this will probably be it. If I go the mx route I am tempted to build my own frame as that is something I've always wanted to do. The other option would be to build a flat track bike that could also go on the street.
I have lots of thinking to do and decisions to make before I get into the project. I will doubtless have a thousand questions to ask as well. I know I'm in the right place for all the help I'll need, this is a great forum!

Cheers,
John.
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by FranktheWelder » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:05 am

Beautiful bike! Congrats! I am looking forward to seeing your progress.
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by eebtr7 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:57 pm

Well, John.... First thing is you might ought to appreciate what you have there.
#1 - You have the finest factory frame ever built for a motorcycle. There is no need to reinvent the wheel by welding up a new frame.
#2 - Why not get the engine started before tearing it apart? The may well be no need for extensive and expensive overhauls.
#3 - The prior owner installed the street front wheel with the 8" brakes, this is a good thing for practical everyday use.
#4 - Your desire for a flat track styled machine was done by the factory in 1971 when they called it a 'Street Scrambler'. The bike is 95% there, as is.
#5 - Install the correct fenders, side panels,seat, lights, horn, & wiring harness from a 1971/1972 B50 and blast on out of your garage. That's all you need.
#6 - Finally, pack up your kit & kaboodle and move east with the rest of the smart folks. I hear there's a guy in San Antonio with a 1972 Gold Star that booms around the neighborhood disturbing the peace and irritating the lonely widows by not stopping to sample their home made pies and cookies.

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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:37 am

eebtr7 wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:57 pm
Well, John.... First thing is you might ought to appreciate what you have there.
#1 - You have the finest factory frame ever built for a motorcycle. There is no need to reinvent the wheel by welding up a new frame.
#2 - Why not get the engine started before tearing it apart? The may well be no need for extensive and expensive overhauls.
#3 - The prior owner installed the street front wheel with the 8" brakes, this is a good thing for practical everyday use.
#4 - Your desire for a flat track styled machine was done by the factory in 1971 when they called it a 'Street Scrambler'. The bike is 95% there, as is.
#5 - Install the correct fenders, side panels,seat, lights, horn, & wiring harness from a 1971/1972 B50 and blast on out of your garage. That's all you need.
#6 - Finally, pack up your kit & kaboodle and move east with the rest of the smart folks. I hear there's a guy in San Antonio with a 1972 Gold Star that booms around the neighborhood disturbing the peace and irritating the lonely widows by not stopping to sample their home made pies and cookies.
Thanks for the input :thumb
#1 Not sure if that is a tongue in cheek comment?
#2 I think you are correct, I'm going to get it running first then decide on what needs to be done to it.
#3 If I build it into an mx er it will have to be a 21" front. If I go the flat track route I will lace up 19" rims to the existing hubs.
#4 Not to my eye it isn't (see pic attached)
#5 I understand that I could do that but I am looking at building something that noone else has.
#6 :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

I want to build this bike as a very usable but unique machine!
See inspiration pics below :thumb
06_07_2016_BSA_441_Enduro_Motorcross_Victor_Classic_Restomod_msoto_custom_Pipeburn_15.jpg
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by koncretekid » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:11 am

Street-Tracker - - Here's my take on that. You're almost there!

Image

Tom
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:04 pm

koncretekid wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:11 am
Street-Tracker - - Here's my take on that. You're almost there!

Image

Tom
Very nice Tom :thumb What are those shocks that you are using?
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by Mike A » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:54 am

When I'm building a bike I find its helpful to get inspiration from many different bikes, taking ideas from here and there and imagining how they would work together, here's a couple of pics of my Victor, you might see something you could use.

ImageIMG_0353 by Mike Arnold, on Flickr

ImageIMG_0359 by Mike Arnold, on Flickr

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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by koncretekid » Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:57 pm

johnu wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:04 pm


Very nice Tom :thumb What are those shocks that you are using?
They are Cornutts that were made back in the '70s that I got with some spare parts for another bike. They are rebuildable so, I disassembled them and put in new seals (I think I did) and repainted them. I tried to use them upside down, but the damper valve floats, so only works properly in this orientation.
Cornutt shocks primer mounted.jpg
Cornutt shocks
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:03 pm

Mike A wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:54 am
When I'm building a bike I find its helpful to get inspiration from many different bikes, taking ideas from here and there and imagining how they would work together, here's a couple of pics of my Victor, you might see something you could use.

ImageIMG_0353 by Mike Arnold, on Flickr

ImageIMG_0359 by Mike Arnold, on Flickr
That's a beautiful bike Mike! I love that tank, I'll be making my own alloy tank.
And yes I have an inspiration folder with about 40 bike photos :thumb
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by Mike A » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:16 am

Thanks, the tank is a late 50s Enfield works trials tank, to be honest I've never really liked the BSA MX/scrambler tank, too square looking for me, thats just my opinion though, I'm sure there's many that like it, but thats the best thing about building your own bike, use what works for you, not what convention dictates, all the best with your project :thumb

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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:04 am

Mike A wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:16 am
Thanks, the tank is a late 50s Enfield works trials tank, to be honest I've never really liked the BSA MX/scrambler tank, too square looking for me, thats just my opinion though, I'm sure there's many that like it, but thats the best thing about building your own bike, use what works for you, not what convention dictates, all the best with your project :thumb
Thanks Mike I totally agree that BSA tank looks all wrong to me!
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:08 am

More inspiration!
Looking at rear suspension and swingarm on this one.
1976-CCM-600MX.jpg
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by Johnq1 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:53 pm

[My project going on the road as soon as the lurgy goes away
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by Johnq1 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:54 pm

Almost there
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by beat » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:02 pm

&lt;069 :thumb :thumb

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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:07 pm

Johnq1 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:53 pm
[My project going on the road as soon as the lurgy goes away
Beautiful bike :thumb
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:58 pm

Not much progress, comparing geometry from my frame to the BSA drawings so I can create and AutoCad version. Waiting for an amal rebuild kit to arrive so I can fire it up. Got a spark so :thumb
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:40 am

Working on the pattern for the new petrol tank:)
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:44 am

More progress with the tank pattern. Something is bugging me about it, nothing major but I can't put my finger on it just yet.
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by FranktheWelder » Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:36 am

It may need all radius-ed corners when viewed from the side or bigger radius? those perfect corners on top are beautiful and would look good all around but add a whole new level of complexity.

Did the .DWG file open?
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:57 pm

FranktheWelder wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:36 am
It may need all radius-ed corners when viewed from the side or bigger radius? those perfect corners on top are beautiful and would look good all around but add a whole new level of complexity.

Did the .DWG file open?
Thanks Frank. I see what you mean about the radii. It could also be that long straight bottom edge that is bothering me, I may radius that under but that bake welding the bottom in way more tricky.

Still didn't get the bugs out of my CAD program yet, going to tackle that today. Have the drg saved on my desktop though :thumb
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by FGF » Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:22 am

Hello ,

i work on a B50SS .
i wanted to make my own tank and seat .

i have designed the B50SS frame with CATIA V5 , a French - US CAD .

if you want, i can send you a Step file of it. It is nearly finished.
cadre_2.jpg
i designed it with the blueprint found on the workshop manual.
the copy has a few faults as you see, it 's a long work.

the Step can be opened with any CAD.

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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:48 pm

FGF wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:22 am
Hello ,

i work on a B50SS .
i wanted to make my own tank and seat .

i have designed the B50SS frame with CATIA V5 , a French - US CAD .

if you want, i can send you a Step file of it. It is nearly finished.
cadre_2.jpg

i designed it with the blueprint found on the workshop manual.
the copy has a few faults as you see, it 's a long work.

the Step can be opened with any CAD.
That's great, i'd love to have a copy of that. I'll pm you my email. Thanks!
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:00 pm

Got the bearings out of my swingarm today. A lot easier than I thought using an idea I saw on another post on here :thumb Getting ready to build my new swing arm now using the original pivot tube. The swing arm i have now is slightly bent so only good as a boat anchor therefore not worrying about cutting it up. New one will be 1" longer and I'm using 1 1/2" dia tube for the arms instead of the original 1 3/8".
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:49 am

Progress is slow, lining up the lower shock mounts.
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:56 pm

Got my NJB Utimate mx shocks today. They do look very well made. Wish they had black springs though, too much chrome bling for my taste! Should finish up the swing arm this week. Next part to tackle is the frame mods that I have planned.
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by FranktheWelder » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:02 am

Nice! That looks beefy!
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:25 am

FranktheWelder wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:02 am
Nice! That looks beefy!
It's funny I used 1 1/2" tube for the swingarm in place of the stock 1 1/4" and it looks massive. I think this will be an iterim piece as I can see that I will probably end up building a box section arm in the future.
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:30 am

More work on the swingarm today. Almost finished now just need to decide on the brake plate locator bracket and the chain guide. Everything is set up as it will sit as far as geometry is concerned in these photos: 27* rake and 11* swing arm angle. Next chop of the rear hoop and relocate the top shock mounts.
IMG_5322.jpg
IMG_5321.jpg
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by beat » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:31 pm

johnu wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:25 am
it looks massive.
things looking different when everything is in place...

beat

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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Sat May 02, 2020 2:35 am

More surgery today! Rear hoop cut off and getting ready relocate the upper shock mounts. I'm trying to work off of the centerline of the main frame and the original shock mounts are not even centered. I will be relocating the chain side shock mount on the swing arm to be centered to the main frame. Originally as far as I can tell the seat is not even centered. I'm just disregarding everything and doing my own thing! This is why I should have just built my own frame. That is a lot of time though and I just want to get out there and tear it up :mrgreen:
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Mon May 04, 2020 2:21 am

Spent a bit of time on the 500 this weekend. Got the top tubes bent and notched ready for welding. Next is new top shock mounts for my 5.5" travel rear end.
IMG_5375.jpg
IMG_5369.jpg
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by BasilF » Mon May 04, 2020 6:48 am

Johnu,

Would be interested to hear about your pipe bending technique. I can see you hot bend, Do you fill with sand, bend round a former etc? All my attempts result in the tube flattening even when it doesn't buckle.

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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Mon May 04, 2020 10:28 pm

BasilF wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 6:48 am
Johnu,

Would be interested to hear about your pipe bending technique. I can see you hot bend, Do you fill with sand, bend round a former etc? All my attempts result in the tube flattening even when it doesn't buckle.
Hi Basil,

I do make up a former that I slide the pipe into once it it heated then just pull the pipe around to the angle I have marked. The former is just a piece of flat bar the same width as the tube I am bending (.875" for this one) curved to the radius I want. I then tack that to a plate then tack another plate on top to trap the tube in which stops it from flattening. I tack a stop and a register to slide the tube into as well. I do not use sand. They come out pretty good, I have done others. I have never done anything more than about a 30* bend and always with a fairly large radius. I wish I had one of those nice mandrel benders it would give me lots more options.

These pics may help :ok Also a pic of a bend on another bike I built.
IMG_5385.jpg
IMG_5386.jpg
IMG_5383.jpg
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Thu May 07, 2020 1:59 am

Had to go old school today with the hacksaw and files! Milling machine not available. Starting on new folding footrest mountings.
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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Fri May 08, 2020 6:20 pm

Foot rests done.
IMG_5416.jpg
KTM 350sxf
KTM 500exc
BSA A10 Road Rocket (RGS Rep)
TR5mx
S*zuki GT500

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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by beat » Fri May 08, 2020 8:58 pm

:thumb :thumb

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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by FranktheWelder » Sat May 09, 2020 12:44 am

Those came out nice!
machines, materials and motorcycles.

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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Sat May 09, 2020 2:33 am

Johnq1 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:53 pm
[My project going on the road as soon as the lurgy goes away
Where did you get that exhaust?
KTM 350sxf
KTM 500exc
BSA A10 Road Rocket (RGS Rep)
TR5mx
S*zuki GT500

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Re: 74 TR5 MX Project For Ken

Post by johnu » Fri May 15, 2020 11:49 pm

Well I got my exhaust done this week. Had to brush up on the old brazing skills, still a bit rusty ;-) Swing arm is mostly done too just have to come up with a chain guide and a wear strip on the pivot tube. Next will be a new rear brake pedal then the seat and tank. Never made a seat like this from scratch before.
IMG_5554.jpg
IMG_5559.jpg
IMG_5555 (1).jpg
KTM 350sxf
KTM 500exc
BSA A10 Road Rocket (RGS Rep)
TR5mx
S*zuki GT500

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