Electric Start

Here you can talk about all kind of TECH for the B50 B44 B25 And Other BSA unit Singles

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Re: Electric Start

Postby twinshocker » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:29 pm

beat wrote:..........

I got it" Zirkel ", yeas, but it all is making it with a " parallaxe ", so it is not exactly enough...



Ok then you need a special device : two needles with different hights and a rod between so you can do your parallaxeausgleich
Can be made

beat wrote:........
BTW, dos anyone have made some experience with CFK ( the carbon stuff ) been used on a engine ?
resistance in temperature, - resistance for Oil, fuel, vibrations :?: :?:



Some BMW bikes ( HP2Sport ) have valve covers of carbon , seems to work.
What are you planninng ? :shock:

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Re: Electric Start

Postby twinshocker » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:37 pm

But the easiest way would be as follows:

- screw the clutch cover onto the left hand crankcase
- clamp the whole thing onto a decent milling machine
- through your big hole in the cover you have acces to the main bearing, take this center as "Zero"
- from the CAD drawing you have the exact coordinates of the holes to be drilled and you can do this easily

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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:42 pm

hi twin

twinshocker wrote:- clamp the whole thing onto a decent milling machine


ha ha, --- when I do this, I can NOT SEE the little milling machine anymore :lol: :lol: :lol:

but for today:

DSCN0331.jpg
the cutter on the way....

DSCN0333.jpg
ready for cutting

DSCN0334.jpg
here it gos......( manualy )

DSCN0336.jpg

mesurements not as good as it should be but the rest will be done by math's
DSCN0335.jpg
put some first lines on it as on the paper...

DSCN0337.jpg
making some space now for the gears....


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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:56 pm

twinshocker wrote:Some BMW bikes ( HP2Sport ) have valve covers of carbon , seems to work.
What are you planninng ?


the big hole was closed until now with a cover made by alu.
DSCN0158.jpg
old style cup

it seals radial with a O ring, total thickness around 10 mm.
as I have to made a new one for the 2mm bigger hole, I will go the route with this CFK material.
see what is coming out on it...

same the front plate of the starter gearbox: I will give this CFK a go....

not sure it will end with success <017 <017

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Re: Electric Start

Postby stew79 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:54 pm

beat, no gift from santa ? (bottom of page 12 ?)

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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:36 pm

hi stew
stew79 wrote:ask Santa for a bigger mill, with some good tooling


santa says: bag ( wallet ) much to small for such a gift, - I should rasp the thing by hand if I am not to lazy.... :cry:

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Re: Electric Start

Postby twinshocker » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:26 am

but i like your hand-operated cutter !! :thumb

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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:10 pm

twinshocker wrote:i like your hand-operated cutter

thanks twin, - there is almost a solution for a problem.....

now I am on to prepare the ( gear ) box...
DSCN0341.jpg
" windows " system.....

DSCN0340.jpg


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Re: Electric Start

Postby twinshocker » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:59 am

Questions:

All the wheels are on the outside of this aluminium part right ?
Will they have bearings on both sides, so there will be a second alupart on the outside ?

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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:36 pm

twinshocker wrote:All the wheels are on the outside of this aluminium part right ?

yeas.

twinshocker wrote:Will they have bearings on both sides,


yeas, they will have needle bearings on each side.

twinshocker wrote:so there will be a second alupart on the outside ?

hopefully a kevlar - part. ( CFK )
if it is to difficult to machine, I will go for alu.....

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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:49 pm

hi all

making today a boss and a clamp to fixate the starter motor to the rear of the new gearboxy
DSCN0343.jpg


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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:48 pm

whilst wayting for the gears from PES:

material : 35mm / 6mm Alu
DSCN0346.jpg
gearbox build

DSCN0347.jpg
bit by bit...


on the way to... ( not L.A. :oops: )
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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:40 pm

<216
allways fallowing the same road: first made a pattern out of a pice of paper and as next the pice of metal

DSCN0348.jpg
part of the box

DSCN0349.jpg
next is: bending it to fit the place

DSCN0350.jpg
do the welding

DSCN0353.jpg
where not much is needed, just add some wire...

DSCN0355.jpg
from the inside

one part in place, grinding and file the welding in to a "close to shape"
DSCN0357.jpg
some more parts are ready....

DSCN0358.jpg
this is how it comes- ready to weld...

will do the welding a other day, - but planing the next steps ahead....
DSCN0360.jpg
new cover for the Big Hole

DSCN0361.jpg
and the front plate.....


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Re: Electric Start

Postby twinshocker » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:26 pm

How thick is that carbon plate ?

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Re: Electric Start

Postby minetymenace » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:56 am

Are the gears supported both sides beat? That is; are you putting bearings in that bit of plastic?
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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:29 pm

twinshocker wrote:How thick is that carbon plate ?

the one I made the Big Hole cover out of it is 9 MM
DSCN0362.jpg
it is to saw....

DSCN0365.jpg
drilling and grinding is doable as well...


minetymenace wrote:Are the gears supported both sides beat? That is; are you putting bearings in that bit of plastic?


sure minety, - since I drive a car wich is hold together compleately by this plastic, I do trust it a bit more.... <212

:lol:

BTW, this other side , the plastic one, is 11.2 MM thick.

beat :mrgreen:

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Re: Electric Start

Postby minetymenace » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:04 am

I've heard all about your plastic car beat, you need the plastic to keep the electrons in, :shock:
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Re: Electric Start

Postby twinshocker » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:22 pm

beat wrote:
twinshocker wrote:How thick is that carbon plate ?

...............
BTW, this other side , the plastic one, is 11.2 MM thick.

beat :mrgreen:


Are you planning to glue or laminate some bushings into the CFK ?

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Re: Electric Start

Postby koncretekid » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:59 pm

minetymenace wrote:I've heard all about your plastic car beat, you need the plastic to keep the electrons in, :shock:


Not to mention - - the smoke!
life's uncertain - go fast now

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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:01 pm

twinshocker wrote:Are you planning to glue or laminate some bushings into the CFK ?


not bushings, - needle bearings it will be at some axles and just the axles it will be at other places.

koncretekid wrote:Not to mention - - the smoke!


the smoke should come from the rear tire, - not from the plastic ( CFK ) nor from the exhaust nor the electronics.... ;-)

was busy today:
DSCN0368.jpg
on the table drill

DSCN0367.jpg
indexing the holes


DSCN0373.jpg
then, preheating for welding

DSCN0379.jpg
lots of edges and corners

DSCN0375.jpg
welding nearly done....


and put the little carbon plate on to the lathe...

DSCN0370.jpg
bloody hard stuff, - HSS cutters do not last long....


DSCN0380.jpg
a close look at the surface:


as the machined surface is very rough by the fibre laiers, I need to " seal " with something.
: instant glue ore something the like ??

any thoughts :?:

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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:09 pm

minetymenace wrote:I've heard all about your plastic car

hi minety,

after trusting in weldings, screws bolts and nuts for more than 60 years it feels a bit strange in a glued plastic car, yes.

but this what the thing can do is totally surprising in a pleasant way :lol: :!: :cool: :!:

:thumb :thumb

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Re: Electric Start

Postby twinshocker » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:38 pm

beat wrote:........

as the machined surface is very rough by the fibre laiers, I need to " seal " with something.
: instant glue ore something the like ??

any thoughts :?:

beat <212


I would use Epoxy ( Zweikomponenten Epoxydharz und Härter) , the structure of the CFK is "open" now from the machining and it can soak the liquid epoxy in and that prevents fraying

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Re: Electric Start

Postby minetymenace » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:45 am

twinshocker wrote:I would use Epoxy ( Zweikomponenten Epoxydharz und Härter) , the structure of the CFK is "open" now from the machining and it can soak the liquid epoxy in and that prevents fraying


You took the words out of my mouth (well the English ones anyway). <200

beat wrote:what the thing can do is totally surprising

You "surprised" a little bit of poo out of Anita!!
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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:21 pm

DSCN0384.jpg

startet the millingwork on this housing now : very time consuming....

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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:09 pm

addet some more material by welding and spend a half day on the mill
DSCN0385.jpg
the sealing surfaces

making the place for the gaskets flat and in parallel
DSCN0388.jpg

DSCN0387.jpg
nine screws having a boss now


thinking of a O-ring seal for this geartrain ....

<017 <017

any ideas :?: :?:

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Re: Electric Start

Postby minetymenace » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:54 pm

Yes, O ring as it will be hard to control the end float on the gears with a gasket....still worried about the plastic, what about coefficient of expansion? Will it warp as you have a bi-metal strip on your primary drive (well metal /plastic anyway)...

And I think I'd put a web between the clutch cover (9 o'clock) and the alternator cover (3 o'clock), just to give it a bit of added rigidity.....and maybe a hole in the clutch cover to adjust the clutch, as adjusting the clutch is now going to be a real nut and bolt exercise!
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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:42 pm

minetymenace wrote:Yes, O ring as it will be hard to control the end float on the gears with a gasket


I am not worry about the end float, but a proper sealing I am after... we will see....

minetymenace wrote:.and maybe a hole in the clutch cover to adjust the clutch, as adjusting the clutch is now going to be a real nut and bolt exercise!

do you mean this hole in the center of the clutch ??
if so, - I never ever used this place to adjust the clutch, so I closed it by welding the last winter. - not missed it anyway. :uhu

DSCN0389.jpg
boss fault


have some space problem.... find out as this boss is in a wrong position!

it is getting more and more narrow... <201

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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:31 pm

Working on a ugly point of the project:
DSCN0391.jpg
the groove, the space for the return spring for Z 8

I could not do this before indexing the axle enters. And now I can not reach it all the way by a 4mm miller. ( 5 mm deepness )
DSCN0392.jpg
handwork is required....

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Re: Electric Start

Postby minetymenace » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:12 am

How about a fly cutter?
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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:17 pm

minetymenace wrote:How about a fly cutter?

guess a fly cutter means a "Einmesser".
I was thinking about, but space for this tool is very rarely, so, - one little mistake in handling and it distroys the cover... :cry:
will do the rest with the little rasp........................................ <006

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Re: Electric Start

Postby *beezergeezer* » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:38 am

To my recollection some early vintage cars had a "dyno starter" A dynamo the would also run as a starter motor at the flick of a switch..heres the theory bit..may be mount a similar unit on the end of the crank in the primary where the alernator is mounted...dyno motors are now making a comback on eco regenerative cars..now all you need is a compact one and a regulator for lights etc..lift the de compressor whirl it over n release..like i say theory. Ps and big battery probably of a harley ..

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Re: Electric Start

Postby minetymenace » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:46 am

*beezergeezer*, you haven't read the whole post, have you? The first few pages are discussions of how best to do this, Dynastart is mentioned several times :oops:
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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:51 pm

Thanks minety....

DSCN0395.jpg
space for pressure spring is done....

DSCN0394.jpg
actualy the box for the gears is done....

DSCN0396.jpg
next Bit: the CFK front plate

DSCN0397.jpg
this one explains the trust in plastics I have....

DSCN0399.jpg
it is easier to made both now in the same step of processing....

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Re: Electric Start

Postby minetymenace » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:32 am

How will the plastic hold up to heat? Both de-lamination and expansion....good move having a plan B. :???:
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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:49 pm

I have read something of it holds 115 ore 120°C.
yes, the engine oil out is sometimes by 120°, I don't know the temp of the primary case, but I guess it is deffenitly lower than 100°C.
I will mesure this next summer and keeping a eye on it.
DSCN0401.jpg

deciding where the cable from the generator has to go and where the four bosses for the topplate centering have to be.
( I do not love much the dowel solution... )
DSCN0403.jpg
marking the inside of the plate

DSCN0404.jpg

the four spots are the points making the centering of the plate, because both plates are done as a insert .
the CFK is set in by 3mm, the alu one is set in by 13mm in to the box.
DSCN0408.jpg
the CFK after milling

bad stuff for milling work.
DSCN0409.jpg

the fibres are not really cut at the surface of the part :(
will buy some sealant for the surfaces from "carbonscout"
the alu plate is still on the mill......
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Re: Electric Start

Postby minetymenace » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:52 am

If you clamp/glue a thin plate on top of your plastic this should reduce the tear out...too late I know, but you may need to do another plan A if you f it up as you can't repair it with weld like plan B
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Re: Electric Start

Postby beat » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:24 pm

minetymenace wrote:If you clamp/glue a thin plate on top of your plastic this should reduce the tear out

good idea, - but then I can not see the scrached line ..... :(

anyway, the plates are roughly done:
DSCN0410.jpg

DSCN0412.jpg
insert in place with a tight fit !

DSCN0413.jpg
same the CFK......


sure, the alu pice will get some more cutting off when the bores for the axles are done...

waiting for the gears from mark now.... <982 <982 <982 <982 ......

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