B44 Wiring/ Earth

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B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by Rothonp » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:15 pm

Hi

I am nearly ready to start rewiring the B44 Victor Special that I am rebuilding. I have a few questions listed below:
I will be using thinwall cable and a Lucas solid state regulator/rectifier
should I make the bike positive earth ( same as standard) or negative earth?
should I use 3.9mm Jap size bullet connectors or 4.7mm (3/16") British size connectors?

Any help or pointers will be greatly appreciated.

Pete

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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by gunnag » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:29 pm

I have wired my B44 as positive earth as per original, I don't see any advantage in changing to negative earth. Make sure you use the right gauge cable, with a 180w alternator putting out up to 15 amps cable with inner core of 1mm square should be about right.

Regarding the connectors I have no experience with the Japanese type bullets, I just use the blue spade connectors crimped on and then heat shrink wrap added to seal the joint.

Solid state regulator/rectifier is a good addition as is the high output 3 phase alternator. Consider using a LED headlight bulb as these draw less power.

Get a decent sealed AGM battery and make sure you add an earth connection wire between engine and frame and battery.

Minety Menace our moderator will no doubt come along soon and add his considerable electrical knowledge.

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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by Ubert767 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:37 pm

I made a replacement wiring loom for my 1970 B44VS using thin-wall insulated wires and original patterned connectors, I was aiming for a near-stock rebuild. I oversized the wires for the juice hungry components, wired it to original polarity and fitted additional earth return wires to the tail light, headlamp housing and engine. Fitted a modern rectifier, kept the Zener diode and also fitted a Wassel ignition system, with the provision of wiring in the loom to revert to original points ignition if needed.
All went well.
Parts were obtained from here--
https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk
Good luck,
Rob

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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by minetymenace » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:32 am

Gunnag and ubert767 give sound advice, these looms last about 30 years, so whatever you do it will be ok. As wiring is (relatively) easy, wire it how you like with your own preferences. Neg earth gives slightly more options for accessories especially if using modern electronics. Modern connectors are brilliant, but the original one are fine. Heatshrink and braids can make spliced and flexible sections (e.g. steering head) robust and simple. I prefer waterproof connectors, neg earth and modern electronics, thinwall wires thick conductors for high current applications, braid and heatshrink. If you want a standard loom, it would take about the same time to make.
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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by gunnag » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:29 am

When making the loom, I've found heat shrink butt connectors very handy when a piece of cable needs extending.

These items are essentially a piece of clear heat shrink tube with a ring of solder in the middle. Cable is inserted from either end and then the butt connector is heated with a hot air gun, the solder melts and joins the wires the heat shrink holds wires together.

These are coloured depending on the wire size, I normally use red or blue, see This Link for an example.

I wish there was a similar system when adding terminals to wires but I havent found one.

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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by minetymenace » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:35 am

OK, similar, but not the same...crimp rather than solder, but still with the heat shrink from Vehicle Wiring Products here. Terminals are normally crimped because solder wicks up the wire strands and forces the flex to occur at the point where the solder stops, which work hardens quickly and breaks, but I don't see why they don't make solder ring connectors with attached heat shrink....so if you solder your connectors, be careful...na, just crimp it, its easier.
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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by Rothonp » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:20 am

thanks very much for your replies. I will probably stick with positive earth, heatshrink wrapped crimp connection and jap bullets (saving the British bullets for anything that needs it). I will also be using superseal multi pin connectors around the headstock area so I can remove the headlight, handlebars, etc.
pic showing current state attached

hopefully be running soon!!
pic attached

Pete
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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by Jeff K » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:18 am

When Crimping, I like to use copper coat anti-seize and then heat shrink tubing. When soldering, I also use heat shrink. I dip the end of the wire in the copper coat before crimping and I find it tends to last longer, it seems to stop the corrosion.
Jeff

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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by BSA_WM20 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:59 am

We go the other way and do a total upgrade when rewiring B 44's unless it is a historically significant motorcycle where authenticity is important.
This starts with a 4 circuit fuse box that takes modern blade fuses
Thus the parts that usually give you grief ( stop / tail and headlamp ) can be excluded from the ignition circuit.
Next goes in a relay for the ignition , another for the horn and a third for the headlamp.
Thus you are no longer shoving 8A or better through dodegy connections on your handlebars and everything does not pass between the terminal on the ignition switch.
Even old worn out controls will pass the 0.1 A required to trip the relay.
The whole hog has the fuse box, ignition & horn relays black box ignition module & black box regulator rectifier mounted on a plate on top of the oil tank under the seat.
BSA wired their bikes that way because it was cheap, not because it was the best way to do it.

Wires are all crimp fitted using uninsulated crimps so they pierce through the insulation holding it firm so it does not pull back exposing bare wire and each crimp then gets 2 pieces of heat shrink over the top to strengthen the connection then the insulating sleeve is pulled up over the lot.
If we remember the first piece of heat shrink is glued and the second is colour matched to the wire ( sort of )
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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by Ian Hingley » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:39 pm

Hi Trevor
I've got relays for dip and main beam on my Victor squeezed inside the headlamp shell. They're a bit chunky though, probably about 2cm cubed plus terminals. Are yours any smaller physically? I know you're the other side of the world, but where do you source yours from?

Cheers

Ian
66 BSA Victor Enduro, 72 BSA Lightning, 62 BSA B40 trials, 2015 Truimph Street Twin, 89 H*nda Bros 650, 96 Aprilia Moto 6.5, 2000 Aprilia Moto 6.5

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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by minetymenace » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:13 pm

Ian, this might be worth a look...
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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by Ian Hingley » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:07 pm

Thanks Gerry

"...realizes the control of great power devices in a relaxed way..."

sounds ideal!

Cheers

Ian
66 BSA Victor Enduro, 72 BSA Lightning, 62 BSA B40 trials, 2015 Truimph Street Twin, 89 H*nda Bros 650, 96 Aprilia Moto 6.5, 2000 Aprilia Moto 6.5

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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by minetymenace » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:26 pm

不客气
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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by Rothonp » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:30 pm

lots of interesting stuff posted here - I wasn't going to use any relays as the last time it was rewired (many years ago) we didn't use any - dip switch and horn switch are new - also 4 circuit fuse box hmm...The bike was bought as scrap basically many years ago so originality isn't important and it would make sense to use modern technology - thanks very much for all your posts - need to have a think about it......

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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by BSA_WM20 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:16 am

Ian Hingley wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:39 pm
Hi Trevor
I've got relays for dip and main beam on my Victor squeezed inside the headlamp shell. They're a bit chunky though, probably about 2cm cubed plus terminals. Are yours any smaller physically? I know you're the other side of the world, but where do you source yours from?

Cheers

Ian
We get most of our wiring supplies from Larrakin Imports in Seven Hills.
We use a micro relay rather than the std 30A headlamp relay as if you are pulling 30 A through a globe on a BSA you won't be doing it for long.
Could not find a base for them so just use spades tied together
The micro relays are about 1/2 the size of the std 30A ones.
On bikes with the lights on switch on the key, the lights power relay is next to the ignition relay and the only relay in the shell is the Hi / lo one.

Search 10A micro relays, lots of them out there but you will generally have to buy them from a wholesaler and thus wholesale quantities.
It is a "retirement project" to set up a rewiring service for old British bikes.
We made a mounting plate that will accomodate any combination of the currently available ignition & charge controllers + the fuse box .
We are using a 2 x 3 fuse box so the horn& stop lamp can be totally isolated from everything else & operational ignition off.
Customer either supplies their own magic boxes or we supply his choice.
Except where multi contacts are needed everything is done using spade terminals in a gang box so it becomes plug & play.

If you have ever tried to find out what was wrong with the under tank wiring on an OIF twin on the side of the road you will appeciate why we avoid using a bunch of identical looking bullets.

This looks very similar to what we are using
https://www.digikey.com.au/product-deta ... -ND/765512
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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by minetymenace » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:34 am

Micro relays in the UK here or any motor factors.
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Re: B44 Wiring/ Earth

Post by BSA_WM20 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:12 am

Yes,
Some auto shops carry them
but I would rather pay $ 4.70 Aus than £ 4.99.
Should find a better range at an electronic componant shop.
Bike Beesa
Trevor

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