LOBE 2 20-21

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by minetymenace »

4870 SFr!!! FinH that's four bikes!!! (but I guess a combo is a bike and a half, so its not that bad...)
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

minetymenace wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:45 pm 4870 SFr!!! FinH that's four bikes!!!
guess this is why they are called " SHOCKS " <1002 <1002 <1003

aniway, I am going forwards now ( on the rear of the bike :oops: )
brackets for the sh...
brackets for the sh...
rear swing arm completed
rear swing arm completed
now coming to the tail and the mudgard story
ss steel up to the upper shock bracket place.
ss steel up to the upper shock bracket place.
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

These Reigers are really zhe best shocks especially for a sidecar outfit :thumb
You see them on almost every decent modern sidecar MX bike
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

twinshocker wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:13 pm These Reigers are really the best shocks especially for a sidecar outfit
You see them on almost every decent modern sidecar MX bike
yes they are. and the ones we got now, having high speed damping adjust, low speed adjust and rebound adjust and of cause the spring load adjust.

need to be a doctor to maintain this shocks.
and what they have: a total weight of 3.100 kg each, wich is really heavy IMO :(
makes 15.5 kg just shock material on the rig.

so, we hopefully will end up with a modern BSA B50 MX sidecar bike <209 <209

beat :laugh :laugh
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

a other welding session, - part of the rear end:
DSCN2427.jpeg
and back in place for next brackets for shocks and mudgard fix
DSCN2429.jpeg
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

beat wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:23 pm and back in place for next brackets for shocks and mudgard fix
rear end done as far it is in ss
DSCN2430.jpeg
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

make the rear end bow out of aluminium. 3 mm wall thickness of the tube.
not sure it will stay the stress coming to it, - but I give it a try
DSCN2433.jpeg
mudgard in place, needs some brackets in alu
mudgard in place, needs some brackets in alu
clearence between tyre and Midgard: 220 mm for the suspension.

and had to mod the oil tank
DSCN2438.jpeg
now, it clears the air intake to the carbi real fine
DSCN2436.jpeg
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Momus »

beat wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:05 pm Hmmmmm <201

coming to the yokes
DSCN2415.jpeg

uper and lower yoke will be very different.

and the main thing on this front end:
the two stanchions are much wider , say more off the front tire than the ones on the Goldie.
DSCN2414.jpeg

at the Goldie, the stanchions have a wideness of 152 mm, makes 26 mm space between tire and stanchion to each side.

out of a surtain experience, I can say this is a good distance to squeeze a stone in between, blocking the front wheel and making a horrible crash with the rig.
as a result you may end up with a brocken neck. :oops: :oops: :oops:

this time, I build it double wide, means 50 mm between tire and stanchion on each side.

hope it helps... :werd
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🤔 surely the go is to minimise the distance so you are dealing with gravel and pebbles and not fist sized chunks. Carry on.
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by FGF »

Hello Beat ,
Ready for the first sidecar cross in Gutenswil 1 of May with the Goldie ?

About '' gravel and pebbles '' in the Switzerland mountain motocross tracks ,
you could prefer to race in Holland in the sand tracks, more confortable and funny !
Francois
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Momus wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:07 am surely the go is to minimise the distance so you are dealing with gravel and pebbles and not fist sized chunks.
I do go the way of " big distance ", seams saver to me...
FGF wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:13 am Ready for the first sidecar cross in Gutenswil 1 of May
I don't know the meeting at Gutenswil, but at the time, everithing is councelet because the lurgy <218 <218

so I work at the 680er:
a Cheney trial tank with 6 litres needs mod.
a Cheney trial tank with 6 litres needs mod.
some cuts and nocks.....
some cuts and nocks.....
not to bad...
not to bad...
and the next target: the Airbox
a CFK plate as a base...
a CFK plate as a base...
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

making a basket to support the filter and a spider to fit the filter on place
DSCN2448.jpeg
DSCN2451.jpeg
DSCN2452.jpeg
next is the basket for the battery..
DSCN2454.jpeg
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

finished the battery tray
DSCN2467.jpeg
came to the saddlery
base plate in 2.5 mm alu
base plate in 2.5 mm alu
a pice of foam
a pice of foam
cut roughly with the handsaws
DSCN2476.jpeg
DSCN2474.jpeg
make it nicely with the angle grinder and a " Fächerscheibe " in Grid 40
DSCN2480.jpeg
looking dood
looking dood
this is it so far
this is it so far
next is the coversheet...

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Last edited by beat on Tue May 25, 2021 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

after marking it, - cut it, - glue it, - saw it.... :

done:
DSCN2501.jpeg
now I come seriously to the front end.
DSCN2502.jpeg
DSCN2505.jpeg
DSCN2506.jpeg
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by KiwiB44 »

Am I the only surprised the yoke is not made stronger, out of solid material?
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by koncretekid »

KiwiB44 wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:43 pm Am I the only surprised the yoke is not made stronger, out of solid material?
Solid does not necessarily make it stronger. The "arms" that attach the center to the fork tubes are either in tension or compression in the outer most fibers, and the space between them does nothing to add strength, so not important.

I would however be a little concerned with the height of the handlebar attachments above the triple clamp which will impart a bending moment to the ring that is welded to the top of the clamps with only two stitch welds. The racking motion of pushing and pulling on the bars will tend to bend those rings about the two stitch welds, unless there are two more rings on the bottom to resist that moment connection. Beat could try putting a long bar vertically into one of the clamps to test it.

Otherwise, I see a very nice design with some nice welding. I recently bought myself a Lincoln Square Wave AC-DC Tig welder to try to become a better welder, but that machine is at my other home in Colorado to which we have been unable to travel since October of 2019, and still cannot do so.

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by KiwiB44 »

koncretekid wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 12:13 pm
KiwiB44 wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:43 pm Am I the only surprised the yoke is not made stronger, out of solid material?
Solid does not necessarily make it stronger. The "arms" that attach the center to the fork tubes are either in tension or compression in the outer most fibers, and the space between them does nothing to add strength, so not important.

I would however be a little concerned with the height of the handlebar attachments above the triple clamp which will impart a bending moment to the ring that is welded to the top of the clamps with only two stitch welds. The racking motion of pushing and pulling on the bars will tend to bend those rings about the two stitch welds, unless there are two more rings on the bottom to resist that moment connection. Beat could try putting a long bar vertically into one of the clamps to test it.

Otherwise, I see a very nice design with some nice welding. I recently bought myself a Lincoln Square Wave AC-DC Tig welder to try to become a better welder, but that machine is at my other home in Colorado to which we have been unable to travel since October of 2019, and still cannot do so.

Tom
koncretekid wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 12:13 pm
KiwiB44 wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:43 pm Am I the only surprised the yoke is not made stronger, out of solid material?
Solid does not necessarily make it stronger. The "arms" that attach the center to the fork tubes are either in tension or compression in the outer most fibers, and the space between them does nothing to add strength, so not important.

I would however be a little concerned with the height of the handlebar attachments above the triple clamp which will impart a bending moment to the ring that is welded to the top of the clamps with only two stitch welds. The racking motion of pushing and pulling on the bars will tend to bend those rings about the two stitch welds, unless there are two more rings on the bottom to resist that moment connection. Beat could try putting a long bar vertically into one of the clamps to test it.

Otherwise, I see a very nice design with some nice welding. I recently bought myself a Lincoln Square Wave AC-DC Tig welder to try to become a better welder, but that machine is at my other home in Colorado to which we have been unable to travel since October of 2019, and still cannot do so.

Tom
There’s quite a bit of shear force on yokes? (and downwards force eg weight). It’s definitely worth a go to fabricate them but I have not seen that done before, particularly in thin gauge tube, which is not to say it hasn’t been done successfully, just I have only seen custom yokes in billet etc

I don’t want to appear critical of what is a build far surpassing my abilities! Just expressing concern as the yokes are a key thing to get right.
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

KiwiB44 wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:43 pm Am I the only surprised the yoke is not made stronger, out of solid material?
well, - it is not made in aluminium,- it is made in stainless steel. :ok
and the tubes are in the dimension of 15 X 15 x1.5 mm.
IMO, the uper yoke dos not need to be strong because it holds mostly only the weight of the front end itself when bike is on jumping.

it is the lower yoke that needs to be strong to hold agains the forces coming from the front wheel to the frame.
koncretekid wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 12:13 pm little concerned with the height of the handlebar attachments above the triple clamp which will impart a bending moment to the ring that is welded to the top of the clamps with only two stitch welds.
you are right Tom, - this place was not finished when taken the pics, - so I guess it is looking better now....
all the parts for the upper yoke...
all the parts for the upper yoke...
in place with the stanchions
in place with the stanchions
now the lower one:
DSCN2509.jpeg
this lower yoke has tubes in the dimension of 25 X 25 X 2 mm

and at the stanchions as well:
DSCN2511.jpeg
as to see, - again the bearings in the yokes :!:

now, - unlucky I run out of Argon Gas ....

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

beat wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 9:50 pm ............
IMO, the uper yoke dos not need to be strong because it holds mostly only the weight of the front end itself when bike is on jumping.......
Are you sure Beat ? :roll:

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

twinshocker wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 12:14 am Are you sure Beat ?
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :laugh :laugh :thumb :thumb :thumb
as long as the bike stays as it should ( not upside down I mean :oops: :oops: )
yes, - I am sure :lol: :lol:

but: by some ugly situations, - there are lot of things that may break :!: :!:

BTW, - the new fork has two square tubes now, - so double the strength as the last one.... <205

well, racing is always something risqué , started with the build of the machine....

beat :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

I didn´t want to offend you.... just couldn´t resist :lol: :thumb
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Ian Hingley »

KiwiB44 wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 12:52 pm ...just I have only seen custom yokes in billet...
Some people seem to think 'billet' is a blend of 'better' and 'bling'. Don't think that's necessarily the case.

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

twinshocker wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 9:37 am just couldn´t resist
hi oli

just keep away from " resist " because I still have a good portion of humor :lol: :lol:

and : " I have not seen this before " - means for me : - " it could be evan better " <205

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

front fork on the way...
welding session
welding session
done a basic....
done a basic....
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

DSCN2515.jpeg
getting closer...

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

main part of the front fork is done,
DSCN2518.jpeg
- now surching for the swing arm...
DSCN2519.jpeg
DSCN2520.jpeg
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

You are not a big fan of bending tubes Beat right ? :grin:

The bend on the smaller tube of the front leg has so a small angle why did you weld it ?
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

twinshocker wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 10:39 am You are not a big fan of bending tubes Beat right ?

The bend on the smaller tube of the front leg has so a small angle why did you weld it ?
wrong Oli, - I like to bend tubes, -- but not the stainless steel ones.

ss steel with this thin walls, ( 1.5 mm ) needing lot of heat to form nicely when bending get done.
this heat is weaken the tubes enormiuose, IMO a no go for the use on a MX bike with lots of vibratings and strongly stressed.

so, - a good done welding is 5 times stronger than a bending.

different a bit if you have a machine for bending and the know how of doing it by very low heat.
but this solution is far out of my reach . <211

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

slow progress:
front swing arm
front swing arm
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by koncretekid »

Beat,
I've probably asked you this before, but do you have 0, positive, or negative trail? I also see a lot of leverage because of the long front leading link forks. Will you put a brace across the back of the links?
Trail
Trail

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

hi tom

yes, I am at this " Trail " story now.

planed is to have around 10 mm " Nachlauf " at the end.
means : wheel axle is 10 mm nearer the engine than the steering point . ( :oops: hope it is clear in english... :oops: :oops: )

at the moment it is 15 mm nearer the engine BUT : when I will welding the upper brackets for the shocks on to the stanchions ,
shure the stanchions will deform by around 5 + mm . and there lower end will travel to the foreword of the bike.
so, I hope to end up by 10 to 8 mm " Nachlauf " .
we will see what is coming out on it soon. <212
koncretekid wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:47 pm brace across the back of the links?
do you mean this ??
do you mean this ??
swing arm in progress, - still not finished <216

BTW, swing arm length ( from bearing point to the wheel axle ) is 290mm .
Distance from bearing point to lower shock bolt is 150 mm.
so it is 140 mm from shock bolt to axle, - means,- it doubles nearly the 132 mm of shock absorber travel.
but as there is a strong rubber limiting the shock travel, - only around 110 mm will be reality, makes a real way of front suspension of about 210 mm.
this is quite a lot for a classic bike.

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by koncretekid »

"Nachlauf" seems to be "positive trail" (in English), typically 3-5", which is usually necessary for stable high speed running. "Negative trail" would lead to a tendency to wobble as the front wheel would want to turn in. The shape or radius of the tire will also contribute to turning as you lean, which of course you can't do on a sidecar rig.

And one other question, where will you locate the anchor end of the brake stay? If you connect it to the link, the front end will be anti-dive; if connected to the down tubes, it will still exhibit dive when the brakes are applied.

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

koncretekid wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:38 am "positive trail" (in English), typically 3-5",
yes, in this case a positive trail of 5 to 15 mm for a MX sidecar rig.
it is 15 mm now before the welding of the schock brackets. we will see what it is after.

the locating of the brake anchor:
on the Goldie it is 150 mm above the bearings of the front swing arm.
on this 680er it will be nearly the same, I will do it when the brake calliper is done and the length ( high ) of it is decidet.

unluky last evening a pice of the grinding disk of the angle grinder could pass my glasses and entering my left eye.
so I can't work fore some days now, but it is coming good I think. :werd

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by skippy »

Hope you get your eye in again soon you do such good work. get well.
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by FGF »

Hello Beat ,
Take care , but quickly !
We are very impatient to see your work progression again ...
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by FGF »

Hoping your injury is not too serious ?
See you soon healthy.
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

thanks gents. <203
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

eye is getting better and front end is making progress:
lower shock brackets
lower shock brackets
something the like....
something the like....
uper shock brackets
uper shock brackets
having all in place, - it looks like a motorcycle for me .....
DSCN2533.jpeg
DSCN2535.jpeg
( and it could be a &lt;069 ,- a real B50icon )

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