LOBE 2 20-21

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beat
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

minetymenace wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:59 pm Haven't you got a roller starter beat?
roller starter on this knobby tyres :?: :?:
DSCN2263.jpeg
I guess it won't work, shurely not when knobs are muddy. ( it will slip ore strip off the knobs )
I have never seen one in the MX scene...
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by minetymenace »

Nothing that time, money and a Beat can't sort....somehow....
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by johnu »

beat wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:57 pm
minetymenace wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:59 pm Haven't you got a roller starter beat?
roller starter on this knobby tyres :?: :?:
DSCN2263.jpeg
I guess it won't work, shurely not when knobs are muddy. ( it will slip ore strip off the knobs )
I have never seen one in the MX scene...
<201 <201 <201
Hi Beat, I sincerely hope that the roller starter will work with the knobby tire. I am just starting to build one to use on my 570!
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

maibe something with a caterpillar tread in stead of rollers :?:
johnu wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:34 am I am just starting to build one to use on my 570!
I stay tuned to see it.....

in the mean time I made a new quadrant, - means the quadrant from PES getting a new shaft.
this time the weld is located just a half inch from the gear side, so abouth in the middle of the bush it is.
DSCN2799.jpeg

took the needle bearing out for the welding, - I am not sure the the quadrant is still ok after feeling the heat from the weld. :oops: :oops:
DSCN2798.jpeg
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by skippy »

Could be a little softer, But the right kicking technique shouldn't bend it. :thumb <216
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

skippy wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:48 pm But the right kicking technique shouldn't bend it.
Hmmmmm <201

at least the new Quadrant is working, but it still won't start.

this 680 ccm volume seams to be a monster to get a live...

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by FGF »

Hello Beat ,

Sorry for these bad news ,
Switzerland is a hilly land !
Couldn't you try a start by pushing the side car down a hill ? with your son of course !

It 'll be still difficult to have a good adherence with the rear tyre , it 's easier with a '' solo bike ''.
Best wishes for the future
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

FGF wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:16 pm Couldn't you try a start by pushing the side car down a hill ?
yes Francoise,- this would be possible.

BUT :

first I have to bring it UP THE HILL :!: :!:

and it will help me only once. so, I have to make it to a easy starting bike, because if it stops once on a racing track, stuck in the mud, down on a hill:

I will be deep in the mess ( mud ) !! :cry: :(

so, today I was working on the decompressor. I made it adjustable, means, I can set up the gap what the exhaust valve is off from the seat very exactly.
as next, I will buy a " STARTER SPRAY " to give it a touch of a explosiv mixture for this very first time.
once running, I will se what a mixture the Mikuni TM 36 carb is making when chock is pulled out.
I think, when I have adjusted this by the lambda measuring, it will be as good to start as the 650 Gold Star engine it is.

well, - some B25 / B50 ( B 68 buggers ) needing a bit of time to get smooth.... :mrgreen:

BTW, I am planing a other source for the energy for the Ignition on this bike.
still total loss, but I will overcome the problem I do have with the SHIDO LI/FE batteries ......( when outside temperature is lower than plus 10° Celsius )

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by johnu »

Beat, we want a video when you get this beast fired up. Also when you race it :thumb
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

johnu wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:35 am we want a video when you get this beast fired up.
------I wishes to make a video, - but the engine is out of the frame the fourth ( 4. ) time now dismantled and ready to go to the British bike doctor who sold me the hot camshaft and the vernier gear.
my guess is as there by the cam timing is something wrong.

I CAN'T START THIS FUCKING THING !!!

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Ian Hingley »

beat wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:19 pm I CAN'T START THIS FUCKING THING !!!
Your grasp of English is even better than I thought beat!

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

beat wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:19 pm [........ the engine is out of the frame the fourth ( 4. ) time now dismantled and ready to go to the British bike doctor who sold me the hot camshaft and the vernier gear........
So i could adore this beautiful thing when i visit him before christmas ? :ban
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by baz »

Hi beat
I can't wait to see you post on here that you've got the engine started and it's running well
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

<215 <215 <215 <215

was on the engine once more today.
focusing on to the camshaft timing.

and there must be something wrong.

as the Haynes book says : start exhaust opening at 80° BBDC for the B 50 MX cam, --- this means it is 100° after TDC,- right ?

now, as I have set the vernier gear to the dot on TDC and the cam wheel to the marking on it corresponding to the vernier dot,-
I DO READ EXHAUST OPENING BY 40° AFTER TDC, - SAY 150° BBDC :!: :!: :!:

my guess is now, as the shay BANG the engine is making by kicking it over comes from blowing the punch all out by the ex valve and no power there to bring it alive. :cry:

when I shift the camgear by 5 teeth, then I came near on to the 80° BBDC as recommended for the B 50 MX cam.

well, as the cam I have is something unknown for me, I have to ask first the seller what values he suggest to set it on.

<978 <978 <978
DSCN2800.jpeg
DSCN2801.jpeg
DSCN2802.jpeg
DSCN2803.jpeg
twinshocker wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:51 am So i could adore this beautiful thing when i visit him before christmas ?
why not oli, why not ? a cup of coffee and a talk is the least I will offer. just let me know when you are arriving.
Ian Hingley wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:13 pm Your grasp of English is even better than I thought beat!
still a lot to learn with a B50 :!: :!: :!:

beat &lt;069 &lt;069 B50icon B50icon :laugh :laugh
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

still struggling with this cam and the timing for it...
maybe megacycle ?
maybe megacycle ?
new barrel using : clear view type....
new barrel using : clear view type....
then, playing the PLAY DOH game......
worms...
worms...
worms in position....
worms in position....
worms after TDC ( valve change )
worms after TDC ( valve change )
when cam wheel is 5 teeth out of pos. it still has 1.1 mm Clarence to the piston:
DSCN2816.jpeg
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by skippy »

That’s the best excuse I have seen to play with play dough. I like your engineering ideas :thumb <201 <214
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by koncretekid »

If you do not get a satisfactory answer from the cam maker, try this. With the motor at TDC and without the crankshaft timing gear installed, place the camshaft in the motor exactly as you show in the photo above - - that is with the lobes equidistance from the top with the tappets in place (they are radius'd tappets, I think). Check that each tappet is the same height off its respective lobe (check with dial indicators by rotating the cam back and forth until both are equal - - might have to use two dial indicators). Now you are at TDC on the exhaust stroke if the opening and closing numbers are specified to be the same for intake and exhaust lobes. Now you can offer the crankshaft timing gear to the crankshaft using any keyway that works without rotating the cam (keep the crankshaft stopped at TDC; Disregard any timing marks) If the cam numbers from the maker indicate that the intake numbers are advanced relative to the exhaust numbers ( like 37 btdc,77 abdc intake, 80 bbdc,40 atdc exhaust, which indicates that the cam is advanced from straight up) you can use a keyway position that requires you to rotate the camshaft slightly counter clockwise (realize that 3 degrees on the crankshaft is only 1-1/2 degrees on the camshaft). Likewise, rotate the cam slightly clockwise if you want to retard the valve timing.

If you find a keyway that lines up perfectly with the crankshaft locked at TDC, and the camshaft installed at exactly straight up, the motor will run!

Tom

P.S. I just noticed that the cam is marked 541X2N. The 541X2 is a Megacycle number, which requires the radius'd tappets, and the valve timing is specified to be 36 btdc, 66 abdc intake, and 66 bbdc, 36 atdc exhaust. Their degree measurements are taken at the pushrod at .040" lift.
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

yes, my cam, set fallowing the dots and markings was wrong.

one teeth off the spot, it is closer, so I set it now by two teeth .
DSCN2827.jpeg
now I am on to put everithing together and by the barrel I cam to a other strange problem my engine have:
DSCN2828.jpeg
can anyone see it :?: :?:

unknown....
:oops:

thanks Tom, - yes the tapes are the round ones and I will check agayn the timing. :thumb
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by FGF »

Hello Beat ,
Strange position for the barrel in fact ...a new timing side ?
Don't be on a hurry Beat , take your time , It 's the off-season !
Great work since the beginning anyway
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

FGF wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:12 pm
Strange position for the barrel in fact ...a new timing side ?
The position of the barrel is right but the gearbox and primary drive seems strange to me !

:laugh
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Ian Hingley »

beat wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:53 pm
now I am on to put everithing together and by the barrel I cam to a other strange problem my engine have:

can anyone see it :?: :?:
Come on beat, you've forgotten to put the pushrods in; no wonder it won't start! :thumb

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Ian Hingley wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:19 pm Come on beat, you've forgotten to put the pushrods in; no wonder it won't start!
wrong Ian, - I have set the pushrods in place but then I could not get the rocker box in position :!: :!:

later on then, I find out as the engine casings are wrong, - because one minute before I was checking the barrel and put some Loctite SI5980 gasket sealant on to the bottom, and the barrel was looking ok then !

aniway, engine is back in the frame, just needs some more things around it...
DSCN2830.jpeg
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

hi gents,

As I havn't made good experience with the LI/FE Batteries from SHIDO, I planing to use the 18 Volt Akku from Makita Tools.
DSCN2832.jpeg
this things are saver by low temperatures and I already own them including a Charger.
So I bought a Torch and cut of the slot for the Akku to fit this in place of the battery tray.
DSCN2825.jpeg
this slot needs a bit a preparing
DSCN2834.jpeg
and of cause a reducing in Voltage from 18V down to 14 Volts.
the reducing will be don by such a little circuit:
Bildschirmfoto 2021-11-26 um 20.00.15.png
Bildschirmfoto 2021-11-26 um 20.01.12.png
well, - some gremlins needed....
DSCN2833.jpeg
this all needs to go on to the bike within the next few days...

see what is coming out on this............

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by minetymenace »

Should only need one of those pots beats, are you going to heatsink the regulator?
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

minetymenace wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:19 pm Should only need one of those pots
what means " POTS " ?? ( in real technical english please ;-) )
minetymenace wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:19 pm are you going to heatsink the regulator?
Yes, the backplate in Alu is the heatsink
DSCN2838.jpeg
Regulator with thermaly conductive paste, and Slot get glued and screwed on to this plate with Araldite.
it is a bit narrow to bring all in to this Slot housing...

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

DSCN2839.jpeg
as it is snowing and dull outside...
DSCN2840.jpeg
the gremlins getting in place....
DSCN2843.jpeg
and covered with glue ( Aradite )

by using a 120 Ohm and a 1200 Ohm Resistor, fallowing the circuit for the LD 1084, it comes out with a voltage of 13.6 V going to the ignition now.
and it dos not matter is the 18 volt accu freshly charged and showing 20.3 volts, ore after a time in use just by 17 volts, - the 13.6 V remains.
as I like it.
.... give it a chance...

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

beat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:49 pm .... give it a chance...
:oops: :oops: :oops:
the chance was from a short duration:
DSCN2844.jpeg
nice fit it was,- but:
DSCN2845.jpeg
just by occasion, the black wire with the minus potential touched the CFK plate at a machine cut section.

and fire and smoke happened at the CFK :!: :!: :!:

It turned out as the Voltage regulator needing a electrical isolated fit on to the heatsink plate :!: :!:

so, the alu heatsink plate transmitted the plus potential on to the CFK and this is on state now <218 <218

well,
DSCN2846.jpeg
digging all out from the housing and starting from new, - just one experience richer....
DSCN2848.jpeg
by getting some help this time, I fitted a isolating pat under the LD1084 and made the screw a isolated fit...
DSCN2849.jpeg
some hours later..
DSCN2850.jpeg
tomorrow I will try again, the measuring with the Ohm meter says, - it is better now

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by minetymenace »

pot = potentiometer beat....ah yes, isolation, that will learn you....

keep up the good work :)
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

yes minety, -- lesson done... :oops:

so no pots used, just the LD1084, two capacitors a 10uF and two fix resistors, one at 120 Ohm and one at 1200 Ohm.
but I know : this circuit is " eating " continousely a small amount of power from the battery, - about two Watt if I am right.
so it is advisable to NOT let the battery in place for weeks and month...
or do I miss something :?: :?: ---- can you calculating this for me please ?

beat

as it looks now in the bike: from top
DSCN2852.jpeg
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by minetymenace »

Yes, such is the trouble with shunt regulators....put a blocking diode (Schottky perhaps) in series with the output, this will stop any back flow, but you may need to tweek the resistor values if too much voltage is dropped across it when on full charge....
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