LOBE 2 20-21

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

hi gents,

for the interested ones:

- next saturday morning, from 10.00 to 12.00 , MX training in Herznach ( near Frick ), - we will be there.
- the race in Mauren CH is not having a sidecar class
- on the 29. 05. 22 the race in Schopfheim G will be on.
- on the 25. 06. 22 the race in Feldkirch A will be on.

some more later....

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Ian Hingley »

beat wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 8:45 pm hi gents,

for the interested ones:

beat <216
We're all interested beat!

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by baz »

Ian Hingley wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 11:42 pm
beat wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 8:45 pm hi gents,

for the interested ones:

beat <216
We're all interested beat!

Ian
Yep
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

baz wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 8:27 amYep
:cool:

some more later....

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

beat wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 8:45 pm for the interested ones:

- next saturday morning, from 10.00 to 12.00 , MX training in Herznach ( near Frick ), - we will be there.
NO MX training in Herznach tomorrow cause of to heavy rainfall since two days. :(

beat :???:
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Well, by the end of the last week I had to decide to exchange the Megacycle 8X cam.
so, now it is Mr 14 !
DSCN3048.jpeg
DSCN3047.jpeg
the reason was, I could NOT safely starting the thing :!: :!: :!:
then, - with the B 50 SS cam it comes a live with some kicks.

yesterday we did our MX training, and--- the kickstarter failed again !
DSCN3049.jpeg
the prolonging for the splinned kickstarter it broke of again !
<218 <215 <215 <013 <013 <013
my guess: it is to long now to clear the frame and to service the 680cc engine.
as I can not make it shorter and working, - I will make it stronger !
shaft size is 19 mm now, - I go for 25 mm :!:

see what is coming out on it ......

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by SteveS »

Hi Beat

You will get top prize for perseverance :thumb

I'm sorry to say but I think the weld on the kick start shaft was bad :cry: . Looking at the pic there seem to a lot of 'inclusions'. I would have another go at welding the existing shaft set-up but make sure you get a 'full depth' weld. The 19mm shaft should be substantial enough. Looks like weld failed by rotational shear rather than bending.

Above advice is from someone who can not weld for toffee i.e. totally useless - I blame it on my equipment :oops:
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by eebtr7 »

I'm going to contest that 'Perseverance Prize'!

My next grand project will be to design engineer and install kiddie bike training wheels onto my fire breathing Dragon B50. You just wait and see.
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by johnu »

SteveS wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 6:36 am Hi Beat

You will get top prize for perseverance :thumb

I'm sorry to say but I think the weld on the kick start shaft was bad :cry: . Looking at the pic there seem to a lot of 'inclusions'. I would have another go at welding the existing shaft set-up but make sure you get a 'full depth' weld. The 19mm shaft should be substantial enough. Looks like weld failed by rotational shear rather than bending.

Above advice is from someone who can not weld for toffee i.e. totally useless - I blame it on my equipment :oops:
I would agree with this too! Definitely looks like weld failure :(
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by FGF »

Hello Beat ,
Could you use a CCM 600 stock quadrant and to move your foot farer you can modify the lever.
A bended and longer lever could put your foot as you want it to be !
Far from the engine ?
It 's difficult to weld a stiff steel spindle and it could be easy to weld the lever .
Francois
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

SteveS wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 6:36 am I'm sorry to say but I think the weld on the kick start shaft was bad
johnu wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 6:29 pm Definitely looks like weld failure
yes guis, I must say: you are right, - the weld was no good :oops: :oops: :oops:

but, - as this is already the third brocken shaft, - and two of them getting only bend, - the weld did not break , I came to the conclusion as I need something stronger .

and as I can not make shorter the shaft, - I do prolonging the case <214
stronger shaft
stronger shaft
made a proper seat for the prolonging
made a proper seat for the prolonging
about like this...
about like this...
in place, need to be machined now...
in place, need to be machined now...
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by johnu »

Well you definitely get credit for perseverance :thumb
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

DSCN3056.jpeg
most of it machined and:
DSCN3058.jpeg
DSCN3057.jpeg
in place.
and surprisingly :

it works :!:

( if you watch the gearshift lever, made out of a straight tube, IT HAS 18 WELDS !! )

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by baz »

Wow that is some great work there beat !! Brilliant solution
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

baz wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 11:24 amBrilliant solution
not to bad IMO. Kickstarter comes back by the springforce, no oilleack, still finding the three gears and the gearshift lever is exactly at the right point.
and the folding kickstarter, the folding footpeg and the gearshift, - nothing is touching each other :!:
this is the "ratnest" of this bike, the most narrow place of all of it....

<022 beat

in one week, 29.05.22 is the next race meeting in Schopfheim Ger. very close to the Swiss border.
again two classes in the same racing. see what is coming out on it <201 <201
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

beat wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 8:34 pm in one week, 29.05.22 is the next race meeting in Schopfheim Ger. very close to the Swiss border.
again two classes in the same racing. see what is coming out on it
well - it comes out as fallow :

Bike was running nice in training and first race, = pictures:
FB_IMG_1654723401235.jpeg
FB_IMG_1654723083116.jpeg
FB_IMG_1654723027011.jpeg
071IMG_2778fb.jpeg
then it comes to the second race and the engine showed up its steady trustiness :
StartIMG_3631fb.jpeg
StartIMG_3631fb.jpeg (22.79 KiB) Viewed 1909 times
- we went off the barrier and in to the first corner in the middle of the lot, - and the engine died !
there was no way to get it alive again. :cry:
same as at the last meeting in Wohnen CH, - it is doing one race and then it failed !! ( very reliable :!: :!: )

guess it was the problem of a overheated carbi whilst waiting to runn off. ( about 10 minutes !! )

anyway, - so far everithing in one pice, a new 15 mm long spacer out of tufnol is on the way and next saturday we compete on the MX Race in Feldkirch A.
FB_IMG_1654723012987.jpeg
FB_IMG_1654723019819.jpeg
Yes, - it is a B 50 ore B 25 ore B 68 :?:

beat :mrgreen:
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by johnu »

Awesome Beat (not the engine stopping part!) How crazy is it that you are racing a machine with a frame that you built with your own hands and no tube bending :shock: Well done and the photos look great <935
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by FGF »

Nice team
Next step : two good races without faults. ...
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

johnu wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:17 am How crazy is it that you are racing a machine with a frame that you built with your own hands and no tube bending
thanks gents, and yes, - if it dos go, - it is going nicely, - mainly the frame part!
evan as I found a crack in the top bracket, the one from the rockerbox to the frame.
DSCN3129.jpeg
IMO, the weld was well done, - but I guess it was not correctly adjusted when fitted. means, after rising the comp ratio from 7.7/1 to 8.2/1 by taking off 1 mm shim under the barrel, moron me I should set tree washers at the studs to compensate the " shorter " engine in hight.
but I was to lazy to do so, trusting to much to the silent blocks, ( rubbers ).

well, - welding the first one and made a new, - slightly stronger one - will hopefully solf the problem.
with stronger tube made
with stronger tube made
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Last edited by beat on Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

Just a thought :
I am not sure if your headstay will last for a longer period.
Why dont you do it in the longitudinal axis to the steering head and longer like on the CCMs ?
In my opinion that´s the direction in which the engine vibrates

Image

Image
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

twinshocker wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:49 pm do it in the longitudinal axis to the steering head and longer like on the CCMs ?
In my opinion that´s the direction in which the engine vibrates
you are right oli, yes.
I di'd it my way because of as lightweight as possible and of trusting the silent blocks about vibrating.
well, - all is a bit risqué on this build, - I do recon with some problems by the time, -- good chance to learn something....

beat :lol:

are you in Feldkirch / Montikel next satturday ?

https://www.mccm-feldkirch.at/wp-conten ... t-2022.png
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

Yes Beat i think building bikes on your level is a never ending learning process. :thumb

I thought about going to Feldkirch but i was in Möggers last weekend as a flag marshal , standing in the glowing heat for 2 days...... so i was fed up with anything motocross related ! :mrgreen:
But now a week is over and things are different , so may be i will go .

When are you guys riding ? Both days ?
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

hi oli,

we are just on SATURDAY in action, - ( if the bike is running )

we will arrive there around 9 o'clock in the morning.
twinshocker wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:03 pm i was in Möggers last weekend as a flag marshal , standing in the glowing heat for 2 days...... so i was fed up with anything motocross related !
:laugh :laugh :laugh

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Hmmmmmm <201

di'd not say a picture ( ore a small movie ) more than thousand words <017 <017

first race :
Feldkirch-2022-Start-1.Lauf.mp4
(5.68 MiB) Downloaded 63 times
second race:
DSC_3957.jpeg
beat, ( all team still in one ( 3 ) pieces )
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Ian Hingley »

beat wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:44 pm Hmmmmmm <201
di'd not say a picture ( ore a small movie ) more than thousand words <017 <017
beat, ( all team still in one ( 3 ) pieces )
Oh dear beat! Hope you were both uninjured and the bike started easily after being upside down.

As they say, "Rubbing is racing!"

Well done

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

hi Ian,

the little crash at the starting procedure costs us a clutch lever, - nothing else was injured.
without the clutch, we could not continues race 1, -- but in race 2 it was everithing ok.

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

hi Ian Hingley,

what primary gearing are you using in your Trial bike :?: ( teeth engine sprocket :?: :?: )

dos anyone use a 18 teeth on a unit single ??

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Mark Cook »

If you use a smaller crank sprocket there will be more torque through the clutch and gearbox Beat. I expect the clutch will slip, when you cure that the mainshaft will twist and snap. Don't ask how I know :(
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Ian Hingley »

beat wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:49 pm hi Ian Hingley,
what primary gearing are you using in your Trial bike :?: ( teeth engine sprocket :?: :?: )
dos anyone use a 18 teeth on a unit single ??
Hi beat

I use the standard B44 28T on my Victor. I do have a friend who uses a 23T from a B40 on his Victor (and rides better than me...). This increases the kickstart spins the engine as well as lowering the overall gearing.

I didn't know an 18T engine sprocket existed. It does sound very low!

Cheers

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Thanks mark for your input, but I will try this route because of what Ian says:
Ian Hingley wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:53 am This increases the kickstart spins the engine as well as lowering the overall gearing.
yes, I do surching mainly for a increased kickstart spin, - so let see what happened ....

DSCN3146.jpeg
DSCN3143.jpeg
( yes, - Mr. 15 is on the bench once more.... :oops: )
cut off the bush for the additional bearing on primary side to get this sprocket in right place..
DSCN3147.jpeg
DSCN3148.jpeg
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Last edited by beat on Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Ian Hingley wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:53 am I didn't know an 18T engine sprocket existed. It does sound very low!
it seams to exist but I do have no information about the fit of the chain.
as I run no chain tensioner, it is very important to be spot on with this.
Bildschirmfoto 2022-07-08 um 21.48.12.png
18 teeth gear from britishbikebits.com

anyone else running one like this ??

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

coming back to the point when I have said :
beat wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:40 pm midgie wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:01 pm
the thicker type identified with a witness on the outside dia, std type width is .248" thicker type width is .280" there is no mention of this in any of the parts books!
thanks midgie- I did not know this and shurely will check it next time !!
DSCN3150.jpeg
checked now the spacer thickness : 5.5 mm only! midgie advised 0.248" ( 6.3mm ) ore 0.280" ( 7.11 mm ).
so clearly to small. with my additional shim it comes to 6.3 mm, just right to one of the standard measurements.
and now, - the place is cleared. --- thanks midgie :!:

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

finding some more pictures from the last race in Feldkirch A in the net :
Bildschirmfoto 2022-07-08 um 21.42.40 Kopie.png
Bildschirmfoto 2022-07-08 um 21.44.31 Kopie.png
Bildschirmfoto 2022-07-08 um 21.41.03 Kopie.png
Bildschirmfoto 2022-07-08 um 21.44.53 Kopie.png
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

beat wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:49 pm ........
what primary gearing are you using in your Trial bike :?: ( teeth engine sprocket :?: :?: )
........
Standart 28 teehth on my CCM Enduro

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Thanks oli

get the bike running today, - as for a first go, - it seams to start easier, - comp Ratio 9.4 : 1, cam Megacycle X8.
rear gearing now : 15 / 62
no clutch slip ore brocken main shafts so far....

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by webby16 »

beat wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 9:54 pm
SteveS wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 6:36 am I'm sorry to say but I think the weld on the kick start shaft was bad
johnu wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 6:29 pm Definitely looks like weld failure
yes guis, I must say: you are right, - the weld was no good :oops: :oops: :oops:

but, - as this is already the third brocken shaft, - and two of them getting only bend, - the weld did not break , I came to the conclusion as I need something stronger .

and as I can not make shorter the shaft, - I do prolonging the case <214
DSCN3052.jpeg
DSCN3053.jpeg
DSCN3054.jpeg
DSCN3055.jpeg

beat <216
Hi Beat like what you did here with the quadrants I have been thinking of doing the same ever since you converted the first kickstart.

My one question how strong is your right leg!!!! :laugh :laugh :laugh
Thanks David
:thumb

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Mark Cook »

Jo Tougeron has them made from a single piece of material.
IMG_0842[1].JPG
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by eebtr7 »

Some guys like the form and figure of pretty girls. I've gotten to where I prefer the above photo.
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Mark Cook wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:47 am Jo Tougeron has them made from a single piece of material.
is looking good, - but - I need the shaft longer by 1/2 inch and thicker by 5 mm!

:oops:

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

You could weld on an extension !

:laugh
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