LOBE 2 20-21

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

BTW, in tree weeks time, Sunday the 26.03.23, is held the MX racing in Wohlen.
the epic build will be in the non- lizenced class sidecar , - the only one classic bike in the Lot of 16 modern Sides.....

see what is coming out on this....

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

DSCN3497.jpeg
DSCN3496.jpeg
..
DSCN3498.jpeg
..
DSCN3499.jpeg
DSCN3500.jpeg
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

It gets stranger and stranger Beat !! ...........
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by FGF »

Hello Beat ,
hydraulic brake , hydraulic clutch , hydraulic start .....
But have you finished your physical training for Wohlen ?
We expect Beat 's team at the top 5 with the B68 Monster this year
Good luck
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

twinshocker wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:40 pm stranger and stranger
indeed !......

but ready for testing:

" dry " it is working....
.
.
primary side...
primary side...
with the cable...
with the cable...
timing side....
timing side....
with two ( tree )  cables....
with two ( tree ) cables....
<201 <201 <017 <017 <984 <984 :?: :?: <209 <209

any Ideas out there on this globe <205 <214 <214

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

FGF wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:49 pm But have you finished your physical training for Wohlen ?
We expect Beat 's team at the top 5 with the B68 Monster this year
hi Francoise,

well, physicaly I should be a little bit better in form than last year, but again , we can not do any trainings before the race, because all training tracks are closed for wintertime here around.

for this year, I just hope to be more " on the track " with my brain then " on the frame " ore " inside the engine " :!:

Top 5 isn't realistic on this week end because all are young teams with modern bikes, - our BSA will be the only classic machine and Beat is surely the
only 70 + rider in the Lot :werd

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Ian Hingley »

Obviously one of your typical simple and straightforward modifications, beat!
I've still no idea!

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by FGF »

You act on the hydraulic clutch and you brake with the rear pedal ?
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

hi gentlemans,

the resolution of this riddle is:

a clutch automatic in correspondence to the rear brake

ore in other words : a anti engine stalling device ( so I can anytime fully activate the rear brake without pulling the clutch lever at the left side handlebar AND WITOUT stalling the engine :!:

it may sound very simple , - just bring one other cable over to the clutch, operated by the rear brake pedal - and this is it :!:

BUT, it is a bit more tricky as it seams by the first view...

because MY demand is : by using the rear brake, the clutch needs to be disengaged FIRST by around 80% before the rear brake is started to be activated!

as both parts, the brake and the clutch are " slipping " devices, - it can be a short time where both are still partly engaged / disengaged .
shurely, it needs to be adjustable, - when clutch gos out and brake comes in.

but, the demand of the clutch is, as the cable can not make more travel than let say 15 mm maximum !
and the demand of the rear brake pedal is as, it will make not more and not less travel then let say 60 mm !

the true is : IT WAS NOT A PICE OF CAKE <208

started with the clutch cable, as I do use this Triumph clutch activator
DSCN2016.jpeg
the dotted line shows where the cable gos..
the dotted line shows where the cable gos..
it is a excellent thing, working perfect, but needs to be correctly adjusted and sets the demand as its short lever should not be pulled to much, - other ways it is "snapping" over.

so I was building a " BRIDGE " above the gearbox with a additional lever, to make possible as two cables are pulling the one wich is going in to the gearbox, activating the clutch.
DSCN3482.jpeg
end stage: two cables pulling the additional lever wich is pulling the cable that gos in to the gearbox
DSCN3503.jpeg
so far for today...

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Last edited by beat on Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by minetymenace »

Ah! Swiss launch control!!
There is no evidence to support the notion that life is serious.
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

It reminds me of this :shock:

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Ian Hingley »

As I've mentioned before, I can't stand that Truimph style 'ball and ramp' clutch activation mechanism. The 'clack' noise of the balls dropping back down the ramp every time I use the clutch on my A65 drives me mad. Trying to adjust the clutch pushrod when one end hits the strongly sprung pressure plate and the other end hits the lightly sprung ramp return spring seems a bit of a lottery. I prefer the good old solid rack and pinion method on my B44!

Cheers

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Ian Hingley »

Hi beat

Could you not have devised something to go in through the primary case and pull, rather than push, the pressure plate to disengage the clutch? This could be activated by the brake pedal which is in the perfect place, right next to the primary case.

I'm sure you could fabricate a prototype in an afternoon!

Cheers

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Hmmmmmmmm <201

at first: -
twinshocker wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:05 am It reminds me of this
IMO : as usual from BMW : a very simply solution for a extremely complicated process .... :roll:
minetymenace wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:58 pm Ah! Swiss launch control!!
:laugh :laugh :laugh :thumb :thumb
Ian Hingley wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 3:15 pm Could you not have devised something to go in through the primary case and pull, rather than push, the pressure plate to disengage the clutch? This could be activated by the brake pedal which is in the perfect place, right next to the primary case.
to pull the clutch just next to the break pedal is a to easy solution for such a high tech racer, -- it needs a bit something more I think...
<214 <214

BTW, I am pretty sure you have been missing something with this " ball and ramp" thingy Ian.
in my case it is working realy good, - won't miss it on my bike :!:

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

now the left side with the break pedal :
DSCN3504.jpeg
the break pedal is pulling a cable indirectly, because a pre- loadet spring is in there to be able to give more way for the pedal when cluch is already finally activated.
also the longer lever is set in a different position to the shorter one to get near the dead end when the break pedal is making still more way just for the break and no more way is needed for the clutch.

VERY SIMPLY; - ISN?T IT :?: :idea: :mrgreen: :thumb :laugh

and today, I have tested it : gents, IT IS WORKING :!: :!: :!: :ban :ban

out of nothing, I can get in to the rear break as quick ore strong as I ever wanted - and the engine is NOT stalling :!:

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

Ok Beat so when i got you right , each time you brake , the clutch is activated as well ?
Don´t you like or need engine braking ?
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Ian Hingley »

twinshocker wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:09 am Don´t you like or need engine braking ?
He'll be getting his old Kwakasaki 2-stroke outfit ready soon! :laugh :laugh

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

twinshocker wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:09 am Don´t you like or need engine braking ?
Ha !!
sure I like engine braking , and I still have it !

I just do NOT having engine braking AND pedal braking in the same time together !

this is a - ( minus ) point of it, and I have to see how I get used on it.

will surely report after the race weekend on the Sunday 26. 03 2023

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Sunday 26.03.2023, the MX Race in Wohlen

--------------------a DESASTER ! ! ! !---------------------( engine still running.......)

will come up later with this part, -- needing some days off first... :werd

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by minetymenace »

Come in No 71, What happened?
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Was away for 3 days in the south of the Alps. Lovely time it was :cool:
minetymenace wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:35 pm No 71, What happened?
well, the race last weekend:
at 10 o' clock ready for the training, - engine wont'd start :!:
fault was ignition wise, - battery seams to be flat !
changed battery, - engine running for 20 seconds and battery flat two !
changed battery again ( back to the SHIDO - Type ) , engine was running and it was a time left for us to use the track for ONE lap only .
so no time to go for speed on the course :(
( wetter was raining strongly and windy )

in the afternoon, race one, four teams involved in a crash at the first corner by the end of the long straight part. We got around this mess, not involved lucky !
the first team that comes out of this sitiation tried to passing us in a left side corner, but he was definitely to fast for this attack and he crashed just in front of us by himself ( IDIOT )!
as we have been to fast to stop for this situation, we crashed in to this team and felt to the left side. Result : bend Handlebar and brocken off clutch lever. ---- GAME OVER :!:

second race in the later afternoon, - it got canceled like other races because Wind and Rain was by far to strong to make a fair race going on.
the situation in the paddock was as bad as on the track, each car was needing a tractor to get pulled out on to the road :!:

so we loading the bike on the trailer and heading home, unlucky we vergot to tow the sidecar side safely to the trailer and we lost the bike partly in a right side corner at the public road !!!! It falls of sideways from the trailer !!

lucky the 680er is a very light wight thing so we could fix this before the police was on place.... :oops: :oops:

Now, I just try to forget this weekend and preparing the lovely BSA for the next event, -- 24.06.23 in Feldkirch Austria

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Ian Hingley »

beat wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:12 pm Now, I just try to forget this weekend and preparing the lovely BSA for the next event, -- 24.06.23 in Feldkirch Austria
That's my birthday beat! Special fingers crossed for you that weekend

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by FGF »

Hats off to you Beat !
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

thanks gentlemans, - - - I try to look forward for better times....( same as this pair here: . . . )
DSCN3454.jpeg
&lt;069 &lt;069
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

found one more picture:
BSA 680er at Wohlen 2023
BSA 680er at Wohlen 2023
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by FGF »

Hello Beat ,
sad to not be able to read your project story ...
I hope you 're just on a holyday trip before next race
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Hi Francois

No, no holiday , just a hell of lot of work this time, - the 680er piston sized again at Feldkirch, so it is in bits and pieces. I try to get it running for tomorrow eavening, training in Herznach near Frick AG.
will do a Report later.

as I am in duty for a watersuply for 40 Houses in the area, - there is a huge leak in the system and it is on me to find it and repair it.
means : 39 phon calls at the same time and just two hands to work and one brain to organise..... <216 <216

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

hi all

short report from Feldkirch :
- piston sized in second time -lap.
back in the paddock, we got pistont free and lifted the needle as far as possible to get richer mixture.
first race we could do but just carefully to not get it sizing again.
second race the same, but half a lap before finish, the HT cable slipped out of the coil, - so game over <215

back home, Mr. 19 comes on the workbench for completely dismantling
DSCN3699.jpeg
the piston:
DSCN3700.jpeg
the liner:
DSCN3701.jpeg
treated the piston with the file and the grinding paper and the barrel with the honing stone:
DSCN3703.jpeg
the result wasn't looking to bad:
DSCN3706.jpeg
as there is now some thousands more cap, I guess it is just from good for my use.
I got it running for Herznach training, - but it is running by far to rich now:
DSCN3730.jpeg
I do work now on a new needle, using again the Amal B50 long type ( 68 mm in length ) to make it fit the Mikuni TM 36 carbi
DSCN3735.jpeg
<216 some more a other day <216

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Mark Cook »

Con-rod bent Beat, or the crankshaft is not in line with the bore.

It's all good fun Beat.
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

Mark Cook wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2023 8:48 am Con-rod bent Beat, or the crankshaft is not in line with the bore.
........
Wouldn´t be the seizure then on the side of the barrell?
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Mark Cook »

It's the fact it's biased to one side makes me suspect there is an alignment issue.

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Mark Cook wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:37 pm It's the fact it's biased to one side makes me suspect there is an alignment issue.
Hmmmmm <201 <201 , this is making me thinking...... <017 <017 <017

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Well, - at the time now I work on new Needle for the Mik TM 36

as I got 3 more Amal needles now, 2 of them get a new shape.
DSCN3707.jpeg
and each of them has a ongoing Number , Nr 1 is it was in use until Feldkirch, Nr 2 is slightly richer mainly in the range of 50 to 75 % trottle pos.
Nr 3 is in the shape of leaner mixture by now, but is ready to get the last polish to be spot on.
DSCN3737.jpeg
unlucky, the Nr 1, when I wanted to made a additional groove for the clip, moron me, I break the top end off from the classy pice, :oops: :oops:
but I stil have the Measurements of the tapper, 5 mm by 5mm al along. The numbers are to see on the sheet left to the vernier gauge.

so it takes a wile to polish them and testrun it with different needle jets in the range of O2, - O4. - O6 and by different clip positions.

Lucky , there is National Day tomorrow, lot of firework here in the area , means lot of noice, so I can testrun the lordly bike with no trouble I hope


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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

hi all,

Engine is running good so far on a short straight road, but in two weeks, on 19. and 20 August the race in Schmidrued - Walde is held.
two trainings and four races during this two days, -- it would be a miracle if the engine is doing it...... :oops:

aniway, I work on a other place at the moment :
DSCN3698.jpeg
as to see, the top engine bracket was falling in pieces by the race in Feldkirch.
this is already the second version that brake, - and I was building it a bit stronger by thicker metalsheet as the first one.

so now I go the other way, making a new one, but in a softer version, - means, adding 3 more silent blocks , one by each rocker box stud to keep the vibrations more away from the braket.
DSCN3729.jpeg
so, four silent blocks now in this place.

as a ugly additional, one of the main engine stud points also was failing when the top one was in pieces....
DSCN3697.jpeg
easy to repair with the TIG welder by the Stainless metal.

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by twinshocker »

I still think it would be better to make the top engine bracket horizontal not vertical , as intended by the BSA designers.
Just my opinion
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Mark Cook »

Clews tried it and the frames broke :cry:

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

I guess, the first two ones , they where to stiff.
the all engine needs to be able to shake, and on the stiffest point it will brake.

so, let see what is coming out on this version now....

Something other buggers me more I say: the ugly and ongoing seizures of the Piston.
At the time, I work a lot on the Needles for the Mikuni TM 36- 2 Carburator.
DSCN3748.jpeg
with the result of having now a choice of Needles where I can testrun it and observe the A / F Ratio measured by the Lambda Sensor.

A observation I have made during the racings is, as the engine was getting very hot IMO. And still now, with a needle that is feeding a A / F Ratio
of 11 / 1 to 12 / 1, so clearly on the toooo rich side, the engine is getting hot very quickly.

So I cam to the conclusion as the fuel I do use isn't the right thing for this engine.

I do use the SHELL V 100 by now, it is the stuff that is making no carbon deposits in the burning chamber, say piston top and head.
DSCN3708.jpeg
so maybe as the piston never getting a shield of coal protecting it from the heat a bit, - it is expanding to much and inside this narrow Nikasil Bore it tendencies to seizure very easily.

As a result now, I have changed the Type of fuel in to the ordinary 95 Octan Led -free juice.

Next weekend, the Race of Schmiedrued- Walde is on, two Trainings and four Heats, each of 20 Minutes, this by a outside Temperature of 33° C.
It will surely show where it is by now -- if the engine is running so far..... :oops: &lt;069
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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Mark Cook »

Beat, it looks like you are getting detonation on the outer of the cylinder head edge.
Options possibley
1. move the piston away from the head.
2. lower the compression ratio.
3. improve the octain rating of the fuel.

https://aaoil.co.uk/product/sunoco-cmr- ... -9-oxygen/

Something like this might help.

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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by beat »

Hi Mark

thanks for your answer. Interestingly, the first two points you have noted, I have it done already by the 19. reassemble now. So I agree with you in this two things .

the last one, the fuel, I give it a try to the other way, - say lowering the octan ratio.
maybe it is getting more worse now, but I can't loose much, just running in to a next sizer ..... :???:

I will report when the weekend is done.


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Re: LOBE 2 20-21

Post by Mark Cook »

Most people misunderstand octane ratings.
The higher the octane rating, the more resistant it is to explode.
The lower the octane rating, the more volatile it is.
Having to high an octane rating just wastes our money.
Too low and it can destroy your engine.

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