LOBE 2 20-21

[beat]

here, we have the Joyce of 98 octane as well, - every gas service station is selling the two, 95 and 98.
the 100 octane is rarely and I was never using it until now with this 680er. And I never had such problems with sizers as now.

sure, it is making the bike interestingly, but slowly and shurely it get's boring to replace piston , liner and conrod after every use of it.....

beat

[Mark Cook]

I don't think it's just the pump octane rating that counts.
I've never had much success with straight pump fuels.
The canned race fuels seem to be much more resistant to detonation.
Just remember don't use leaded with your oxygen sensors.

Mark

[beat]

Yes Mark, I go with you in all this things.

BTW, here in CH, if you wanted to have leaded, you have to order it a halve year in advance, minimum amount: 2 000 L

beat

[beat]

Hi Gentlemans,

Report from last weekend, Race in Walde .
Bike started well and was running well for the training Laps.

in race one, near by the end of lap one, right in the middle of the lot, track gos around a apple tree, I opened trottle and : engine died
BTW, it was by one yard exactly at the same place as last year when a cam tapped brocke and the intake pushrod jumped out !!
this time, it seamed to be ignition related, because the red LED on the ignition box that shows when points are closed,- it never comes to - ON.
Aniway, the Tractor driver, - same guy as last year, - he asked us as we maybe liking more to watch the race in the shadow of the apple tree than to do the race by our self.......

--- Cleaning the contacts on the set of points and the engine was running for heat two.
race two, near the end of lap one, right in the middle of the lot, just after going around the apple tree, - - I opened trottle and engine died again
SAME PLACE; SAME TEAM; SAME BIKE; SAME BSA ENGINE
same tractor driver pulled us back to the paddock, and I asked him to make a agreement for wayting with the tractor for us in the shadow of the apple tree next time.......

and the fault seamed to be ignition related, - the red LED never was going OFF to make a spark.

well, we have had enough from the badluck from this day and decidet to travel home and better go for swimming in the lake the day 2 when the other two racings where hold....

so gentlemans, I guess we have to wait a bit more until the big success with this epic build is going on....

beat

( well, the engine was on the bench now the twenties time, getting the threads in the barrel repaired and a Electrex World ignition installed...

inserting Helicoils to the 8 mm studs.

and maybe it helps:

[Ian Hingley]

.
Stop. Right. There.

I joined this forum 16 years ago and all that time Beat has continued to praise the virtues of contact breaker points and decrying any advantages of electronic ignition.

Suddenly one Sunday evening in late August 2023 and with no prior warning, there's mention of Electrex World ignition.

Is it a full moon??

Good luck beat!

Cheers

Ian

[Jack Gifford]

The solution is obvious... cut down the apple tree!

[beat]

the Elektrixeri Ignition is a tribute to my son how was saying after the third brake down :

fuking old shit this points, - - put something in that is working now



so, let us se what is coming soon.....

cut down the apple tree!

( I would like to go a other route : before each race, make a deposit of a docent set of points with quick release device in the shadow of the apple tree,
and change it each lap..... )

[beat]

hi gent's

yesterday, we vent to Herznach for a training session.

at home, - the day before, two - three kicks and it comes to live, cold ore hot.

Saturday morning, NO WAY TO GET IT RUNNING !!

just kickback and missfiring was the Answer of bumpstart ore kickstarting it.
as a result:

both gears are totally brocken down I say.

and as to see, not the teeth at the beginning of the quadrant are cut of, no, it shut back whilst stroke down it seams to my.

how ever, a dear tribute to the electronic ignition I say.....

beat

[eebtr7]

Beat, my highly respected friend, you are singlehandedly keeping the BSA unit single parts manufacturing industry in business!

[twinshocker]

....................
how ever, a dear tribute to the electronic ignition I say.....
.....................

Also an electronic ignition needs a proper timing !

[Ian Hingley]

both gears are totally brocken down I say.
and as to see, not the teeth at the beginning of the quadrant are cut of, no, it shut back whilst stroke down it seams to my.

how ever, a dear tribute to the electronic ignition I say.....

beat

Sounds like an ideal opportunity to transplant the electric start from your B50 road bike, beat...

Ian

[beat]

Also an electronic ignition needs a proper timing !

hi Oli,
proper timing was exactly what I was doing
by fallowing the instruction leaflet, the above gears are the result

next timing setting will be " beat ", - - means, I will go 5° AFTER TDC and then set the marks to 39°

It would be very helpfull to see a timing courve of the Electrex STK 107 unit, ore a other one for replacing the ATU and the points on a brit bike.
Any one ever have seen something the like

transplant the electric start from your B50 road bike

Dear Ian, you are not far away from my ideas .....

beat

[KiwiB44]

Also an electronic ignition needs a proper timing !

hi Oli,
proper timing was exactly what I was doing
by fallowing the instruction leaflet, the above gears are the result

next timing setting will be " beat ", - - means, I will go 5° AFTER TDC and then set the marks to 39°

It would be very helpfull to see a timing courve of the Electrex STK 107 unit, ore a other one for replacing the ATU and the points on a brit bike.
Any one ever have seen something the like

beat

Something like this?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8929&p=84751#p84751

[beat]

Yes Kiwi, something like this. thank you !

I am just pretty sure, near the 0 to 500 Rpm this courves are not true, - and if they are, - they are wrong !!

since years, I do start my streetlegal B50 with 2 degrees AFTER TDC timing set. this to avoid kickback.

And now, this Electrex thingy is set as per Instruction, - and it kicks back like hell
sure, the long stroke flywheel ( 102 mm ) help to make it more worse, but I have to overcome this problem.

today, I have rotated the crankshaft to 8 ° AFTER TDC and have set the timing marks to 40 ° at the pulser.
guess, tomorrow I am ready with the new quadrant and give it a try....



beat

[Mark Cook]

You need a bespoke kickstart quadrant with the correct heat treatment.
Though I haven't tested any of the ignitions for a few years I suspect nothing much has changed.
1. The timing marks will be somewhere near! +- 5 degrees.
2. The advance curve will be different form one unit to the next from the same manufacturer.
3. You won't get enough total advance for what you are trying to achieve.

Whilst at the BSA summer camp in the Netherlands it became clear that an old electronic ignition needs rebirthing.
Gerry, can you please post that ignition unit back to me please.

Mark

[beat]

1. The timing marks will be somewhere near! +- 5 degrees.
2. The advance curve will be different form one unit to the next from the same manufacturer.
3. You won't get enough total advance for what you are trying to achieve.

hi Mark,

I got it running today, and I must agree with most as you say, - as bad as it is.
just Nr 3 is not tested now, sure is: the really bad kickback is mostly go'n with my adjusting !
some times , it is making a soft " plop ", but it must be so near to the TDC as it did not harm the new quadrant gear.
sure is : next timing will be 10° after TDC and 42 at the Pulser.

beat

[twinshocker]

Beat, you don´t need to fire after TDC. The war against kickback is won at TDC, if not a little earlier.

If you have a battery anyway i would look for a Sachse ignition
from 0 to 400 RPM it fires at TDC
from 400 to 1500 static a little bit earlier
and from 1500 you have 9 different curves to choose from. I think he can program a custom curve for you as well.

https://www.elektronik-sachse.de/shopsy ... h-229.html

click on " Einbauanleitung )

I have such an ignition in another bike it never kicked back

[beat]

Hi Oli, - I will come back later to your input, sure.

at the moment, I do have a huge problem with my Engine : IT DOS NOT START

means, when engine cold, with pulled choke , it is starting by first kick. if it dos NOT start by first kick, - it will NOT start what ever I do!

when engine is warm ore hot, - it is NOT starting aider !
have changed Ignition, have changed carburettor Mik VM 34 Round Slde and other Mik TM 36, different Jets and needles, no success

any ideas to there ?

(( we have to miss the Racing of Lugnorre this weekend because the non running engine , - - - first time in my live it happens something like this ))

[KiwiB44]

Hi Oli, - I will come back later to your input, sure.

at the moment, I do have a huge problem with my Engine : IT DOS NOT START

means, when engine cold, with pulled choke , it is starting by first kick. if it dos NOT start by first kick, - it will NOT start what ever I do!

when engine is warm ore hot, - it is NOT starting aider !
have changed Ignition, have changed carburettor Mik VM 34 Round Slde and other Mik TM 36, different Jets and needles, no success

any ideas to there ?

(( we have to miss the Racing of Lugnorre this weekend because the non running engine , - - - first time in my live it happens something like this ))

Its unlikely but after changing carb or carb settings one can have an engine that won’t start cos you either have too little or too much slide opening without knowing it. So you have fuel and spark all good, but no start.
e.g. I once could not get my b44 to start cos the slide was not fully returning due to an accidental cable re-route. My B44 is much harder to start unless the throttle is “shut” (against the stop), especially when cold.
Another time I had no obvious compression and no start, cos the slide was fully closed so no air was getting into the engine.

Edit: also check yr de-comp is working properly and not holding the ex valve open

[beat]

hi kiwi

Its unlikely but after changing carb or carb settings one can have an engine that won’t start cos you either have too little or too much slide opening without knowing it. So you have fuel and spark all good, but no start.
e.g. I once could not get my b44 to start cos the slide was not fully returning due to an accidental cable re-route. My B44 is much harder to start unless the throttle is “shut” (against the stop), especially when cold.
Another time I had no obvious compression and no start, cos the slide was fully closed so no air was getting into the engine.

Edit: also check yr de-comp is working properly and not holding the ex valve open

beleve me, I have checked al this points carefully and tested the carbs with different settings of trottle position for using choke, etc.


then, I came to the point where I realised as I have changed ONE thing only since last time running: the cam setting
this engine was always a hard starter, - since new, - and since new it was the Megacycle X 8 cam in.
last engine opening, I was shifting the cam gear by ONE teeth in the direction as the valve change is more equal to the advice Megacycle is giving on the instructionleaflet.
the reason to change was the poor power output in low revs, - in higher revs it performed really good , but for MX use this is not what I am after.
the result of shifting one teeth was, as the exhaust valve opened 38° after TDC !

well, as the engine is opened and on the bench now the 21 time, I spend a all day to measure the timing of the X 8 cam.
and I cam to the awareness as this cam is a f %&/*+ç k.
now, I have installed the 541 X 2 cam, see what is coming out on this....

beat

[skippy]

Maybe it's telling you it wants an amal carby on it.
Spark, compression, fuel air mixture, what could be more simple.

[Mark Cook]

Beat doesn't like simple.

Mark

[beat]

Beat doesn't like simple.

I wishes it was, - but today I try to start it, - - - - no success

[beat]

It is out of the frame the 22 time because it may not start because of very low compression.
Piston, Rings and Liner are looking good, so the only things may be not as they should are the valves.
so I spend this monster a new set of nails, grinding them in to the right shape and using the R&D Springs as recommended by Megacycle for
use the 541 X 2 cam.
beat

[beat]

engine in today and fit the new Electronic Sachse Ignition.
fitting and set up as per manual was not so easy.
the tapper in the Megacycle camshaft is clearly wider as the one in a B 50 SS camshaft.
so the adapter needed to been machined longer by 1.5 mm in the conical way of 5° .
then, fiting and adjusting is a quick thing.

try to start the 680er. NO WAY TO GET IT RUNNING

[skippy]

Have you tried aero start, it will light up anything.

[beat]

aero start,

you mean using the starter spray ?

[twinshocker]

Does the test mode of the ignition ( switch position Zero ) run ?

[beat]

Does the test mode of the ignition ( switch position Zero ) run ?

yes, it dos work . But : the spark is in the beginning of the Test big and fett, - after let say ten seconds it is getting smaller and slimmer.

BUT : I GOT IT RUNNING

I vent from two degrees after TDC to two degrees before TDC with the timing, and at the Carburator to a old setup of Jets we have used in the beginning of this season. - - and it came alive

now, with the Lambda Sensor , I am on to go step by step true all jets and needles to come to the values of 1 : 11 to 1 : 12 over the all range.
a lot of work for tomorrow and hopefully the neighbours are all in Holliday ore at work.....

beat

[skippy]

aero start,

you mean using the starter spray ?

Yes Beat But It's good to see you have got it to start. Now all you have to do is keep it together.

[Ian Hingley]

...and hopefully the neighbours are all in Holliday ore at work.....

Buy a pack of ear plugs on ebay and donate a pair to each of your neighbours!

Besides, who doesn't like the sound of a tuned BSA single being fettled??

One of my neighbours hates it unfortunately

Good luck!

Ian

[beat]

who doesn't like the sound of a tuned BSA single being fettled?

Well, there are a few , but they have been away this afternoon. so, a docent times needle in, testrun, needle out, polishing, in again, test run,
needle out, polishing.....etc.

but it is coming better and better. starting is a two ore three kicks affaire, and there it gos, -- lovely !

about kickback : yes, it is doing it frequently, my guess is as this is coming from the unexactlyness of the Hall - Pikup.
( as Mark is saying: + - 5 ° is the rule, - I guess this is right. )

beat

[Jack Gifford]

Hall-effect transistor can NOT be responsible for +/- 5 degrees imprecision. Something else must be to blame. I've used Hall-effect triggering for a number of automotive applications- they have all behaved very precisely.

[Mark Cook]

Beat, do you have weight for your crankshaft?

Mark

[beat]

Hall-effect transistor can NOT be responsible for +/- 5 degrees imprecision. Something else must be to blame.

hi Jack,
very interesting, - as I have made test starting with 2° after TDC timing, as well with 2° before TDC timing, the kickback is nearly the same !
the difference is, as with 2° before it is getting easier alive - when it is coming to...

do you have weight for your crankshaft?

No Mark, no information about it. Just: it fits in the cases and makes 102 mm Stroke.

together with the slipper piston from Wössner, it is surely not vibrating strongly, no, - less vibes than the stock B50 combo .

beat

[skippy]

My bike will sometimes roll back on the crank and catch the kickstarter which feels like a small kick back.

[Mark Cook]

What I was wondering Beat was that the crank was not rotating at a linear speed at low rpm?

Mark

[beat]

roll back on the crank and catch the kickstarter which feels like a small kick back.

when the 680er is doing it, it is clearly to hear the bang from the combustion.....

What I was wondering Beat was that the crank was not rotating at a linear speed at low rpm?

will make a small video when in idling...

[beat]

video when in idling...

DSCN3794.mov

(63.08 MiB) Downloaded 70 times

[minetymenace]

63Meg!!! Looking at the spark plug protector...you have too much time on your hands beat!!!